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Perhaps you could expand on how women are mistreated in interviews? Are you saying that even though you thought you were treating men and women fairly, you wer
by mmelin 16y ago
Perhaps you could expand on how women are mistreated in interviews?
Are you saying that even though you thought you were treating men and women fairly, you were actually mistreating the women you were interviewing? Or are you saying that "other people" mistreat women in interviews - which begs the question how you know that those other people are actually treating women differently than men (they could just be assholes to everyone, I mean).
- tptacek 16y agoI don't think I've mistreated anyone in an interview (except that when I started interviewing in the '90s, I treated them as excuses to demonstrate how smart I was, which was a waste of everyone's time). But, no, when you ask someone whether they're really going to be able to take care of their kids and handle the demands of the job you're interviewing them for, you're clearly not being an equal-opportunity douchebag. I have many more examples than that, some of them worse, but I'm not going to give you a bulleted list; I expect most people who've known women who've interviewed widely have similar examples.
- untamedmedley 16y agoI don't want to push too hard, but here's two reasons it would be better for you to pull out that list: The first is that it gives a heads up to the few women here who are just entering the field. It may open up discussions for how to handle such situations when they arise. The other reason is that not sharing these examples is just as good as saying they never happened. Real concerns become phantom accusations of prejudice against women that don't ever get addressed.
- tptacek 16y agoThe nice thing about Hacker News is that I think you doubt I'm making any of this up, and so I don't have to violate confidences to make a point.
- untamedmedley 16y agoYou're right, though I do think a lot of the issue has nothing to do with explicit instances of sexism. A lot of things don't need to be said out loud to have a negative effect on women in the field.
- juliamae 16y agoI'm curious how an interviewer would even know if the woman has kids. I'm a female dev and have never been asked about kids while interviewing, and if I had kids, I certainly wouldn't talk about them on an interview. Making the assumption that all women will have kids and are mostly likely going to put raising them over their career is incredibly sexist - that goes beyond "not being an equal-opportunity douchebag".. that's like "doesn't understand women and probably has never had a meaningful relationship with one." The woman is best off not working with such an ass imo.
- tptacek 16y agoYeah, funny that. You could infer one of a couple very bad interview tactics from what I wrote. I feel no need to correct whichever assumption you make. You clearly have the presence of mind to laugh this off, but my thoughts trend more towards torches and pitchforks.
- deleted 16y ago[deleted]
- pbhjpbhj 16y ago>I'm curious how an interviewer would even know if the woman has kids. Perhaps they actually read their CV? There would be some guesswork involved, for sure, but I think that an experienced recruiter could probably spot the signs at interview. A few things of the top off my head that would help: Most people list marital status on a CV. Hobbies? If they have lots of them then they're not likely looking after kids. Do they travel a lot. Are they the right age? Does their appearance suggest they spend lots on themselves compared to their income? Is their phone smashed up. Are they up on current affairs? Is their any hesitation when you ask if they'll be able to do late shifts or stay late or travel on short notice ... etc., etc..
- deleted 16y ago[deleted]
- benatkin 16y agoDid you mean to say this? > But, no, when you ask someone whether they're really going to be able to take care of their kids and handle the demands of the job you're interviewing them for, you're clearly not being equal-opportunity, douchebag. The way you originally posted it, it sounds like you're implying that equal-opportunity people tend to be douchebags, which doesn't seem to jive with the first part of that sentence.
- Poiesis 16y ago"But, no, when you ask someone whether they're really going to be able to take care of their kids and handle the demands of the job you're interviewing them for, you're clearly not being an equal-opportunity douchebag." Funny enough, I'm at home right now taking care of the kids/wife because of the latter's massive migraine. This is putting two projects at work behind. So here's an example of a male that could arguably be said to not be "handl[ing] the demands of the job", for a narrow definition. I'm glad to be able to do this, though I know it does have consequences, and it may be seen by people with less family responsibilities as unfair. Althought it's still way more common for handling "the kids stuff" to be heaped on the wife's shoulders, more and more the men are stepping up. (notes: 1. assumption of household with married man and woman. I know there are other arrangements. 2. Don't mean to take tptacek's quote out of context--clearly he was disparaging interview questions that are sexist/illegal.)