3 ms·

DNA blunder creates phantom serial killer (2009)

58 points by wglb 9y ago

deaddodo 9y ago
> Now police investigators have established that in all probability the DNA had not been left by their quarry but by a woman working for the German medical company supplying the swabs, who had inadvertently contaminated them. Or she's the German Dexter and this is precisely her plan.
__jal 9y ago
Combined with repeated prosecution crises with forensic labs in the US, it looks like it is well past time to take a serious look at evidence handling. The ones in the US have caused thousands of convictions to be called into question; this one caused the coerced collection of 3000 innocent people's DNA. Incompetent and/or rogue labs are a serious, capricious risk to peoples' freedom.
- DoctorOetker 9y ago
  I agree that there are substantial problems surrounding DNA evidence. They fundamentally stem from sound theory, but unsound (and unverifiable soundness) practice. For people who do not understand DNA is DNA and they dont understand the huge practical difference between theory and practice. These can be members of prosecution, judges, investigators, police, lawyers but also family members of the unlucky convicts, who are "dissapointed" in their innocent relatives. But in this case they are thinking the problem is not in the labs, they think the problem was in the supplier of swabs. I am not sure why they would find the same DNA over such a wide region as Germany or even europe. Do all european police buy their swabs from the same manufacturer? If yes why is only her DNA present and not those of any colleagues? If police across europe use different suppliers for their DNA swabs, containers, bags ... why don't we see similar "mystery" serial killers for the other suppliers? Also all the cases will have to be re-opened. Potentially families of murdered people were told they were looking for the woman, while the murderer in their case might have been a male friend or relative. If someone close to you is murdered and you have a very vague (but accidentally correct) suspicion of the perpetrator, and then the police comes and tells you they are lookinng for the real perpetrator of a specific sex, this may "refute" your accidentally correct suspicion!
  - coldtea 9y ago
    For one, DNA means you need to trust the police (and related labs). If one doesn't trust them, there's no reason to trust a DNA-based "evidence" either. Not only can DNA be planted (like all kinds of physical evidence have been planted by police in western countries in documented cases), but of course, in a dictatorship or some shady government in a banana republic, "we found a DNA match" can be just a BS empty statement made because of political reasons -- and no one will be the wiser.
dschuetz 9y ago
I wonder if that's an exclusively German thing, their authorities never question results if the process itself is approved by law making and courts. "The results are too implausible to be true, but heck, who am I to question the process and the people involved with this?" criminal investigator, probably, facing the profile of this "phantom serial killer".
jk2323 9y ago
You have to know that the Bavarian police was in charge of this case. The Bavarian police is known to be incompetent extraordinaire. It was obvious that this was an artifact. I mentioned this long time before the case was "solved". https://www.metafilter.com/73462/Onewoman-crime-spree https://www.metafilter.com/73462/Onewoman-crime-spree What is the biggest achievement of the Bavarian police? Being so incompetent in the 72 olympics so that the GSG9 special forces were created.
- acqq 9y ago
  Your claims clearly don't mach Wikipedia: Specifically, Bavaria had no reports of crimes committed by the Phantom. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phantom_of_Heilbronn https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phantom_of_Heilbronn "It was found that the contaminated swabs all came from the same factory, which employs several Eastern European women who fit the type the DNA was assumed to match. Bavaria, although a region central to the crimes, obtained their swabs from a different factory. They had no reports of crimes committed by the Phantom." The cause for all DNA detections was: the use of sterile but not DNA-free cotton swabs: "the laboratory results were due to contamination of the cotton buds used for DNA probing. Although sterile, the swabs are not certified for human DNA collection." The Wikipedia article lists the locations of the crimes, obviously these swabs were more widely used, and they even weren't used in Bavaria.
  - jk2323 9y ago
    I remembered wrong out of my head. Yet, does not change my judgement about the Bavarian police. Trust me on this one.
    - acqq 9y ago
      > does not change my judgement about the Bavarian police Still irrelevant to the article, however.
    - hh3k0 9y ago
      Badmouthing the Bavarian police because you had negative experiences, perhaps? Bavaria has the lowest crime rate of all German states and proportion of crimes solved in the state is the highest in Germany.
Gravityloss 9y ago
Reminds me of the UK story of the notorious polish traffic offender. They had multiple tickets all over the country during the years and never paid any of them. Turns out their name, when translated to english was "driver's licence".
- jacquesm 9y ago
  That guy Prawo Jazdy again? He's been doing the same here in NL! https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ireland/4732923/Prawo-Jazdy-Identity-of-Irelands-most-notorious-driver-uncovered.html https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ireland/47...
- drfuchs 9y ago
  Many cases in the US of people choosing unfortunate "vanity" license plates and then getting billed for zillions of unpaid parking tickets: "UNKNOWN", "NO PLATE", "NO TAG", "VOID", "XXXXXXX", "NONE"... https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/licensed-to-bill/ https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/licensed-to-bill/
rdc12 9y ago
Sounds like this could have probably been avoided, if they had done random testing on the swabs themselves to give confidence that they were not compromised by contamination.

58 points by wglb 9y ago

> Now police investigators have established that in all probability the DNA had not been left by their quarry but by a woman working for the German medical company supplying the swabs, who had inadvertently contaminated them. Or she's the German Dexter and this is precisely her plan.

__jal 9y ago

Combined with repeated prosecution crises with forensic labs in the US, it looks like it is well past time to take a serious look at evidence handling. The ones in the US have caused thousands of convictions to be called into question; this one caused the coerced collection of 3000 innocent people's DNA. Incompetent and/or rogue labs are a serious, capricious risk to peoples' freedom.

DoctorOetker 9y ago
I agree that there are substantial problems surrounding DNA evidence. They fundamentally stem from sound theory, but unsound (and unverifiable soundness) practice. For people who do not understand DNA is DNA and they dont understand the huge practical difference between theory and practice. These can be members of prosecution, judges, investigators, police, lawyers but also family members of the unlucky convicts, who are "dissapointed" in their innocent relatives. But in this case they are thinking the problem is not in the labs, they think the problem was in the supplier of swabs. I am not sure why they would find the same DNA over such a wide region as Germany or even europe. Do all european police buy their swabs from the same manufacturer? If yes why is only her DNA present and not those of any colleagues? If police across europe use different suppliers for their DNA swabs, containers, bags ... why don't we see similar "mystery" serial killers for the other suppliers? Also all the cases will have to be re-opened. Potentially families of murdered people were told they were looking for the woman, while the murderer in their case might have been a male friend or relative. If someone close to you is murdered and you have a very vague (but accidentally correct) suspicion of the perpetrator, and then the police comes and tells you they are lookinng for the real perpetrator of a specific sex, this may "refute" your accidentally correct suspicion!
- coldtea 9y ago
  For one, DNA means you need to trust the police (and related labs). If one doesn't trust them, there's no reason to trust a DNA-based "evidence" either. Not only can DNA be planted (like all kinds of physical evidence have been planted by police in western countries in documented cases), but of course, in a dictatorship or some shady government in a banana republic, "we found a DNA match" can be just a BS empty statement made because of political reasons -- and no one will be the wiser.

dschuetz 9y ago

I wonder if that's an exclusively German thing, their authorities never question results if the process itself is approved by law making and courts. "The results are too implausible to be true, but heck, who am I to question the process and the people involved with this?" criminal investigator, probably, facing the profile of this "phantom serial killer".

jk2323 9y ago

You have to know that the Bavarian police was in charge of this case. The Bavarian police is known to be incompetent extraordinaire. It was obvious that this was an artifact. I mentioned this long time before the case was "solved". https://www.metafilter.com/73462/Onewoman-crime-spree https://www.metafilter.com/73462/Onewoman-crime-spree What is the biggest achievement of the Bavarian police? Being so incompetent in the 72 olympics so that the GSG9 special forces were created.

acqq 9y ago
Your claims clearly don't mach Wikipedia: Specifically, Bavaria had no reports of crimes committed by the Phantom. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phantom_of_Heilbronn https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phantom_of_Heilbronn "It was found that the contaminated swabs all came from the same factory, which employs several Eastern European women who fit the type the DNA was assumed to match. Bavaria, although a region central to the crimes, obtained their swabs from a different factory. They had no reports of crimes committed by the Phantom." The cause for all DNA detections was: the use of sterile but not DNA-free cotton swabs: "the laboratory results were due to contamination of the cotton buds used for DNA probing. Although sterile, the swabs are not certified for human DNA collection." The Wikipedia article lists the locations of the crimes, obviously these swabs were more widely used, and they even weren't used in Bavaria.
- jk2323 9y ago
  I remembered wrong out of my head. Yet, does not change my judgement about the Bavarian police. Trust me on this one.
  - acqq 9y ago
    > does not change my judgement about the Bavarian police Still irrelevant to the article, however.
  - hh3k0 9y ago
    Badmouthing the Bavarian police because you had negative experiences, perhaps? Bavaria has the lowest crime rate of all German states and proportion of crimes solved in the state is the highest in Germany.

Gravityloss 9y ago

Reminds me of the UK story of the notorious polish traffic offender. They had multiple tickets all over the country during the years and never paid any of them. Turns out their name, when translated to english was "driver's licence".

jacquesm 9y ago
That guy Prawo Jazdy again? He's been doing the same here in NL! https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ireland/4732923/Prawo-Jazdy-Identity-of-Irelands-most-notorious-driver-uncovered.html https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ireland/47...
drfuchs 9y ago
Many cases in the US of people choosing unfortunate "vanity" license plates and then getting billed for zillions of unpaid parking tickets: "UNKNOWN", "NO PLATE", "NO TAG", "VOID", "XXXXXXX", "NONE"... https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/licensed-to-bill/ https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/licensed-to-bill/

rdc12 9y ago

Sounds like this could have probably been avoided, if they had done random testing on the swabs themselves to give confidence that they were not compromised by contamination.