5 ms·

Please refute any of my arguments

by 2RTZZSro 8y ago

Daishiman 8y ago
You don't have any. You have unfounded opinions which you yourself fail to back up.
laurentl 8y ago
Would you care to point out any argument in your little tant, so that it can be refuted?
lagadu 8y ago
Your "unelected bureaucrats" are elected by popular vote every 5 years in the elections for the European Parliament. The other "unelected bureaucrats" in the council are elected by the governments that were elected in each country's elections. That's a lot of electing for an "unelected" bunch of people. Please go back to your hole.
- vixen99 8y ago
  Elected commissioners? They are appointed not elected and as we know, they alone can propose laws. "The Commission has a virtual monopoly on the introduction of legislation into the legislative process, a power which gives the Commission considerable influence as an agenda setter for the EU as a whole. And while the Commission frequently introduces legislation at the behest of the Council or upon the suggestion of Parliament, what form any legislative proposals introduced take is up to the Commission. " https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_legislative_procedure https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_legislative_pro...
  - Chyzwar 8y ago
    One of the 28 is the Commission President (currently Jean-Claude Juncker) proposed by the European Council[5] and elected by the European Parliament.[6] The Council of the "European Union then nominates the other 27 members of the Commission in agreement with the nominated President, and the 28 members as a single body are then subject to a vote of approval by the European Parliament.[7] The current Commission is the Juncker Commission, which took office in late 2014." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Commission https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Commission Council represent individual governments and European Parliment is elected. Commision is also elected by above. This system ensures that power is distributed between executive and legislature. By extension of the democratically elected European Parliament, legislature sooner or later trickle down to individual countries. Compare this to the US with total chaos. Where president did not win by popular vote. Elections are rigged by gerrymandering. Senat is pushing for a legislature that is ignored in half of the states. President is doing executive orders that are either illegal or overreach his competences. FBI is messing with elections by running the public show. Maybe EU move slowly, but I like this process.
- typingduck 8y ago
  I am a very pro-EU member of the Union and I definitely think the EU is on a roll with regulation lately (e.g. timely arrival of GDPR, reduction is subsidies for less democratic members). However I am one of those pro people who think it's good to be critical. The nature of democracy in the EU is a good question that needs to be resolved. Only Ireland seems to have been consistent about asking the actual people for their thoughts of big changes being made in the EU. It's even questionable if Junker was 'elected' indirectly by the elected governments and it's almost certain he would never have been directly elected by the people of the EU given what would have emerged about tax 'avoidance' in Luxembourg. Without wanting to give support to the English tabloid media, I think those questioning the democratic nature of the EU have a valid argument and the downvoting of those doing so above surprises me. :)

Please refute any of my arguments

Daishiman 8y ago

You don't have any. You have unfounded opinions which you yourself fail to back up.

laurentl 8y ago

Would you care to point out any argument in your little tant, so that it can be refuted?

lagadu 8y ago

Your "unelected bureaucrats" are elected by popular vote every 5 years in the elections for the European Parliament. The other "unelected bureaucrats" in the council are elected by the governments that were elected in each country's elections. That's a lot of electing for an "unelected" bunch of people. Please go back to your hole.

vixen99 8y ago
Elected commissioners? They are appointed not elected and as we know, they alone can propose laws. "The Commission has a virtual monopoly on the introduction of legislation into the legislative process, a power which gives the Commission considerable influence as an agenda setter for the EU as a whole. And while the Commission frequently introduces legislation at the behest of the Council or upon the suggestion of Parliament, what form any legislative proposals introduced take is up to the Commission. " https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_legislative_procedure https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_legislative_pro...
- Chyzwar 8y ago
  One of the 28 is the Commission President (currently Jean-Claude Juncker) proposed by the European Council[5] and elected by the European Parliament.[6] The Council of the "European Union then nominates the other 27 members of the Commission in agreement with the nominated President, and the 28 members as a single body are then subject to a vote of approval by the European Parliament.[7] The current Commission is the Juncker Commission, which took office in late 2014." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Commission https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Commission Council represent individual governments and European Parliment is elected. Commision is also elected by above. This system ensures that power is distributed between executive and legislature. By extension of the democratically elected European Parliament, legislature sooner or later trickle down to individual countries. Compare this to the US with total chaos. Where president did not win by popular vote. Elections are rigged by gerrymandering. Senat is pushing for a legislature that is ignored in half of the states. President is doing executive orders that are either illegal or overreach his competences. FBI is messing with elections by running the public show. Maybe EU move slowly, but I like this process.
typingduck 8y ago
I am a very pro-EU member of the Union and I definitely think the EU is on a roll with regulation lately (e.g. timely arrival of GDPR, reduction is subsidies for less democratic members). However I am one of those pro people who think it's good to be critical. The nature of democracy in the EU is a good question that needs to be resolved. Only Ireland seems to have been consistent about asking the actual people for their thoughts of big changes being made in the EU. It's even questionable if Junker was 'elected' indirectly by the elected governments and it's almost certain he would never have been directly elected by the people of the EU given what would have emerged about tax 'avoidance' in Luxembourg. Without wanting to give support to the English tabloid media, I think those questioning the democratic nature of the EU have a valid argument and the downvoting of those doing so above surprises me. :)