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> Everything that's below the floor pan is amazing. Everything above it is what it is. Honest question: Is everything below the floor pan designed and built by

> Everything that's below the floor pan is amazing. Everything above it is what it is. Honest question: Is everything below the floor pan designed and built by Panasonic?

jernfrost 8y ago
I thought Panasonic only made the cells and that tesla assembles the batteries, cooling system, electric drive train etc.
cowsandmilk 8y ago
He was very complimentary of the circuit boards, saying he has no idea where they were sourced and basically saying they were the only company using cutting edge circuitry of a quality and density similar to the latest cell phones.
- devy 8y ago
  Tesla's former VP of Autopilot Software&Hardware (oversees all low-voltage hardware, aka everything else besides High Voltage battery drivetrain) was Jim Keller[1][2], who also designed Apple's System on a Chip A4 mobile processor and an early AMD chip architect. So that makes a lot of sense. [1] https://electrek.co/2018/04/25/tesla-autopilot-jim-keller-leaving-chip/ https://electrek.co/2018/04/25/tesla-autopilot-jim-keller-le... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Keller_(engineer) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Keller_(engineer)
  - Fricken 8y ago
    Jim Keller didn't have anything to do with developing the hardware for hw2. The board is from Nvidia, it's a stripped down variant of their Drive PX2 computers. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Autopilot https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Autopilot https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drive_PX-series#Drive_PX_2 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drive_PX-series#Drive_PX_2
    - annerajb 8y ago
      No. That board uses a reference design from Nvidia. They redesigned Nvidia reference designed removed one of the fpgas, changed interfaces added GPS directly on board. If you are not familiar a reference design would be selling your prebuilt computer and telling you this works. Afterwards you come in throw the case out and change anything but try to maintain the relevant electronic connections between components. Remove the ones that you don't need and add required ones. Plus design and layout a circuit board with your new requirements and parts.
- solarkraft 8y ago
  Which quite surprised me. Aren't circuit boards a large, already well researched and optimized field since they're inside everything? Is the autopilot board better than that of a laptop or smartphone? Sure, hardware is hard, but it doesn't seem like differentiating knowledge in the tech industry (while maybe the other car makers are a few years behind in optimisation).
  - gmueckl 8y ago
    Circuit board layouts can be a nightmare. Automatic routing algorithms suck for networks of realistic sizes, so a lot of the work is done by hand and that is a mixture of tedium and art. If you are designing high power or high frequency circuits you also need to observe a lot of constraints in your layouts as well (distances between parts, potential cross talk between parallel traces, signal travelling time along the traces belonging to the same bus...).
    - solarkraft 8y ago
      Sure. Doesn't seem to change much for cars though. It doesn't seem like something Tesla has a significant competence in. Even in high-stress environments, unless I missed something.
  - stefan_ 8y ago
    If you put a smartphone circuit board into a car it won't make it 5 years until failure from sheer mechanic stress. There is a reason you can buy automotive grade components, and it's not that car makers like to pay more or have less volume. And ultimately, of course, circuit board weight or dimensions are not really a metric worth optimizing for something that goes in a car. If you can make it cheaper by only having 6 layers instead of 18 for a smaller version, auto makers will choose the penny pinching option every time.
- buildbot 8y ago
  The boards he was complimentary of when he was talking about circuit density are just standard off the shelf Nvidia DRIVE systems, not designed at all by Tesla - https://developer.nvidia.com/drive/hardware https://developer.nvidia.com/drive/hardware
  - shadowtree 8y ago
    The board in the video that Munro is holding up looks bigger and different than those two. You're 100% sure those are the same? Munro acknowledges that the chips are from NVidia, but claims the board to be unique.
    - annerajb 8y ago
      They are not the same you are correct that board is hand laid by Tesla electrical engineers following loosely Nvidia electrical schematics but removing uneccesaary electrical subsystems and adding ones like on board GPS receiver.
  - mlindner 8y ago
    False. NVidia is not supplying off-the-shelf DRIVE systems. They supply the chips that go on them but the board design and manufacturing is by Tesla.
- Fricken 8y ago
  Those boards are from Nvidia. They're stripped down variants of the PX Drive 2.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
sweden 8y ago
No, only the battery cells: http://img.ismap.com/nimg/6c/67/e370d981467b8ba457e178916006-600x600-0/3400mah_battery_panasonic_18650_cells.jpg http://img.ismap.com/nimg/6c/67/e370d981467b8ba457e178916006... The battery modules (a group of cells) and the battery packs (a group of battery modules) are completely engineered by Tesla. I recommend this series of videos about Tesla's battery modules: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7GR5fERXNY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7GR5fERXNY
- Someone 8y ago
  Are you sure? https://www.tesla.com/blog/tesla-and-panasonic-collaborate https://www.tesla.com/blog/tesla-and-panasonic-collaborate (emphasis added): “The parties intend for Panasonic to begin PV cell _and_module_ production at the Buffalo facility in 2017. […] Shuuji Okayama, Vice-president, Eco Solutions Company of Panasonic, added, “_Panasonic_PV_cells_and_modules_ boast industry-leading power generation performance, and achieve high quality and reliability.”” That first phrase leaves open that Tesla designed the modules that Panasonic produces, but I can’t read that second statement other than that Panasonic owns the design of the modules, and likely also designed it. Edit: https://www.tesla.com/presskit#gigafactory https://www.tesla.com/presskit#gigafactory says “The Gigafactory is producing a Tesla/Panasonic designed and engineered cell called a “2170 cell,” as the diameter is 21mm in x 70mm in height.”, implicating that Tesla even had a hand in designing the cells. They don’t make it easy to get a clear view of how ownership of the technology is divided between Panasonic and Tesla.
  - _ph_ 8y ago
    The Buffalo facility makes photovoltaic (PV) cells and modules, thats solar panels. The 2170 cells are made in the Nevada gigafactory by Panasonic and integrated into modules by Tesla.

> Everything that's below the floor pan is amazing. Everything above it is what it is. Honest question: Is everything below the floor pan designed and built by Panasonic?

jernfrost 8y ago

I thought Panasonic only made the cells and that tesla assembles the batteries, cooling system, electric drive train etc.

cowsandmilk 8y ago

He was very complimentary of the circuit boards, saying he has no idea where they were sourced and basically saying they were the only company using cutting edge circuitry of a quality and density similar to the latest cell phones.

devy 8y ago
Tesla's former VP of Autopilot Software&Hardware (oversees all low-voltage hardware, aka everything else besides High Voltage battery drivetrain) was Jim Keller[1][2], who also designed Apple's System on a Chip A4 mobile processor and an early AMD chip architect. So that makes a lot of sense. [1] https://electrek.co/2018/04/25/tesla-autopilot-jim-keller-leaving-chip/ https://electrek.co/2018/04/25/tesla-autopilot-jim-keller-le... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Keller_(engineer) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Keller_(engineer)
- Fricken 8y ago
  Jim Keller didn't have anything to do with developing the hardware for hw2. The board is from Nvidia, it's a stripped down variant of their Drive PX2 computers. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Autopilot https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Autopilot https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drive_PX-series#Drive_PX_2 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drive_PX-series#Drive_PX_2
  - annerajb 8y ago
    No. That board uses a reference design from Nvidia. They redesigned Nvidia reference designed removed one of the fpgas, changed interfaces added GPS directly on board. If you are not familiar a reference design would be selling your prebuilt computer and telling you this works. Afterwards you come in throw the case out and change anything but try to maintain the relevant electronic connections between components. Remove the ones that you don't need and add required ones. Plus design and layout a circuit board with your new requirements and parts.
solarkraft 8y ago
Which quite surprised me. Aren't circuit boards a large, already well researched and optimized field since they're inside everything? Is the autopilot board better than that of a laptop or smartphone? Sure, hardware is hard, but it doesn't seem like differentiating knowledge in the tech industry (while maybe the other car makers are a few years behind in optimisation).
- gmueckl 8y ago
  Circuit board layouts can be a nightmare. Automatic routing algorithms suck for networks of realistic sizes, so a lot of the work is done by hand and that is a mixture of tedium and art. If you are designing high power or high frequency circuits you also need to observe a lot of constraints in your layouts as well (distances between parts, potential cross talk between parallel traces, signal travelling time along the traces belonging to the same bus...).
  - solarkraft 8y ago
    Sure. Doesn't seem to change much for cars though. It doesn't seem like something Tesla has a significant competence in. Even in high-stress environments, unless I missed something.
- stefan_ 8y ago
  If you put a smartphone circuit board into a car it won't make it 5 years until failure from sheer mechanic stress. There is a reason you can buy automotive grade components, and it's not that car makers like to pay more or have less volume. And ultimately, of course, circuit board weight or dimensions are not really a metric worth optimizing for something that goes in a car. If you can make it cheaper by only having 6 layers instead of 18 for a smaller version, auto makers will choose the penny pinching option every time.
buildbot 8y ago
The boards he was complimentary of when he was talking about circuit density are just standard off the shelf Nvidia DRIVE systems, not designed at all by Tesla - https://developer.nvidia.com/drive/hardware https://developer.nvidia.com/drive/hardware
- shadowtree 8y ago
  The board in the video that Munro is holding up looks bigger and different than those two. You're 100% sure those are the same? Munro acknowledges that the chips are from NVidia, but claims the board to be unique.
  - annerajb 8y ago
    They are not the same you are correct that board is hand laid by Tesla electrical engineers following loosely Nvidia electrical schematics but removing uneccesaary electrical subsystems and adding ones like on board GPS receiver.
- mlindner 8y ago
  False. NVidia is not supplying off-the-shelf DRIVE systems. They supply the chips that go on them but the board design and manufacturing is by Tesla.
Fricken 8y ago
Those boards are from Nvidia. They're stripped down variants of the PX Drive 2.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

sweden 8y ago

No, only the battery cells: http://img.ismap.com/nimg/6c/67/e370d981467b8ba457e178916006-600x600-0/3400mah_battery_panasonic_18650_cells.jpg http://img.ismap.com/nimg/6c/67/e370d981467b8ba457e178916006... The battery modules (a group of cells) and the battery packs (a group of battery modules) are completely engineered by Tesla. I recommend this series of videos about Tesla's battery modules: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7GR5fERXNY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7GR5fERXNY

Someone 8y ago
Are you sure? https://www.tesla.com/blog/tesla-and-panasonic-collaborate https://www.tesla.com/blog/tesla-and-panasonic-collaborate (emphasis added): “The parties intend for Panasonic to begin PV cell _and_module_ production at the Buffalo facility in 2017. […] Shuuji Okayama, Vice-president, Eco Solutions Company of Panasonic, added, “_Panasonic_PV_cells_and_modules_ boast industry-leading power generation performance, and achieve high quality and reliability.”” That first phrase leaves open that Tesla designed the modules that Panasonic produces, but I can’t read that second statement other than that Panasonic owns the design of the modules, and likely also designed it. Edit: https://www.tesla.com/presskit#gigafactory https://www.tesla.com/presskit#gigafactory says “The Gigafactory is producing a Tesla/Panasonic designed and engineered cell called a “2170 cell,” as the diameter is 21mm in x 70mm in height.”, implicating that Tesla even had a hand in designing the cells. They don’t make it easy to get a clear view of how ownership of the technology is divided between Panasonic and Tesla.
- _ph_ 8y ago
  The Buffalo facility makes photovoltaic (PV) cells and modules, thats solar panels. The 2170 cells are made in the Nevada gigafactory by Panasonic and integrated into modules by Tesla.