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I was using Gnome on Fedora for a while but I switched to Windows 10 a few months ago and can't say I've had any problems with the UX. Window snapping works. M

I was using Gnome on Fedora for a while but I switched to Windows 10 a few months ago and can't say I've had any problems with the UX. Window snapping works. Minimizing windows works. You can do that thing where it shows a small version of everything you have open on both (win+tab on Win10, don't remember the Gnome shortcut). Recommending Linux to someone over Windows seems insane to me unless that person is literally just using a web browser for everything or they are a developer. An operating system is useless unless it runs the programs you want to run and Linux is still missing so much. Microsoft Office would be a good start.

danShumway 8y ago
I run Windows 10 on a Surface Pro 3 because Linux touch support is just too bad right now and because I have maybe two essential applications that don't run on Linux. I would switch it over in a heartbeat if I could, I think the UX is really bad, it's a nightmare for me to maintain. I hate that the updates are so pushy; I boot into the computer maybe two or three times a month and pretty much every time it wants me to restart and update something. I hate that it installs new updates on startup, I don't know who decided that when I turned on a computer I'd want to wait 3-4 extra minutes for stuff to install. I've been bitten by that multiple times during work presentations and calls. I hate how glitchy the core OS touch support is; the touch keyboard only pops up about half the time, and manually getting it to show up is a pain. Unbelievably, Gnome is more consistent - which is saying something because Linux touch support is so bad. Periodically, the dock will just decide it doesn't want to hide anymore. There's about a 50% chance if I switch it into tablet mode that screen rotation will work. The default permission prompts don't always tell me which application is requesting authentication. I have #?x! ads in my start menu. The whole UX is just really... buggy and nonsensical and it feels like none of the designers ever tried to use it outside of demo conditions. Maybe that's my device or whatever, but I'm on a Surface Pro. Microsoft should be able to get that right. I could go on, but there's not much point. In comparison, my Linux desktop basically never breaks. I set it up once, and it just works. Same for my parents. Especially with the rise of the web, app support is good enough for them and, again, they want their apps to be usable, not flashy, and Open Source usually fits that criteria just fine. The type of person who can get by with an Android tablet instead of a desktop, could also probably get by with a small Linux laptop and might even prefer it now. There are obviously exceptions, but I don't have a lot of problem recommending Linux to people anymore, because I've found most people want a computer that is set up specifically for them, and then they just want it to work consistently. (Opinion me) most people do not want their computers to evolve, or delight them or something. I think the demographic that Windows and Apple court is real, but narrower than you might suspect.
- e12e 8y ago
  > ... I have maybe two essential applications that don't run on Linux. I would switch it over in a heartbeat if I could, They don't run under wine? (or in a Reactos vm? I assume they don't make sense to run in a vm, as if they did, you'd already run Windows in a vm?)
  - danShumway 8y ago
    Unfortunately no, but I retry them every three or four months to see if they will. Clip Studio is close - really close, but color selection doesn't work and touch controls are messed up (especially with the stylus eraser). Touch support in Linux in general is awful, even with apps that I expect better of like Firefox or MyPaint, but it's almost good enough that I could tolerate it and switch anyway. I'm semi-hopeful that it'll cross that line in a year or two, and especially hopeful that the work Purism is doing on the Librem Phone might speed that process up. I honestly haven't tried to run a VM, I just assumed it would eat up battery too much to be useful - and since I use the tablet specifically for these apps, I'd have to spend all of my time in the VM anyway, which doesn't seem like much of an improvement :)
- bitwize 8y ago
  Obviously you're not using LTSB, which is what any sensible Windows 10 user would do.
wutbrodo 8y ago
> unless that person is literally just using a web browser for everything or they are a developer This describes the personal desktop usage of all of almost every single person I know. I put my dad on Linux Mint almost a decade ago, because regular tech support got much more difficult once I moved away for college. The calls for help got cut down by a factor of 10 after the switch. Its made some strides, but at least back then, Windows was way too complex for probably the bottom half of the distribution of tech savvy users.
- wilsonnb 8y ago
  I hear people make claims like this all the time on hacker news and reddit, and I just don't get it. The only way I can see someone who knows nothing about computers experiencing 10x less issues by switching from Windows to Linux is because they use their computer 10x less or the person they go to for tech support knows Linux better than they know Windows.
  - wutbrodo 8y ago
    To be honest, I'm just as baffled in the other direction. Have you ever seen a Linux Mint system? It's hardly Gentoo. What problems are you imagining, once the setup is completed? (It should be obvious that I didn't hand my dad a Live USB and say "good luck"). Installing software is simple, safe search and click in something named "software center". Updates are the same. Performance tends to be much better. For a non tech savvy user: How do you install software on Windows? How do you avoid viruses if you're not savvy enough to intuitively pick up on which sites and emails are legit and which are malicious[1]? How do you stop 500 random programs from slowing the crap out of your computer by autostarting and running in the taskbar? This is leaving aside the piss-poor performance of the actual OS itself, which certain tech-savvy people handle by fretting about antivirus programs and the necessity of defragmentation. Go far back enough and you can't even dismiss the former of these concerns offhand, while with Linux, "don't worry about viruses" is an accurate enough directive. I could've said the same for Windows, but the collateral damage would be the very useful "don't download random software from random shady sites". For fuck's sake, at one point Windows had a virus that could infect your system _without even being opened_ (if attached to an email that was opened in Outlook). Aside from setting up his system, which I'd have to do anyway, I struggle to think of a single problem my dad has had in the ten years since he's switched that wasn't an unforced error that he'd do on any system (ie accidentally changing some setting like screen magnification and being unable to find his way back). I'm actually really curious about your answers to the above overarching question, because I similarly can't imagine what computing universe you live in that is remotely similar to the one I live in. [1] some interesting research out of MSR sometime back indicated that bad grammar and other obvious tells in scam emails were actually _intentional_, in that they filtered out all but the least savvy users, who'd have the highest percentage of susceptibility during the more labor-intensive subsequent stages of the scamming process.

danShumway 8y ago

I run Windows 10 on a Surface Pro 3 because Linux touch support is just too bad right now and because I have maybe two essential applications that don't run on Linux. I would switch it over in a heartbeat if I could, I think the UX is really bad, it's a nightmare for me to maintain. I hate that the updates are so pushy; I boot into the computer maybe two or three times a month and pretty much every time it wants me to restart and update something. I hate that it installs new updates on startup, I don't know who decided that when I turned on a computer I'd want to wait 3-4 extra minutes for stuff to install. I've been bitten by that multiple times during work presentations and calls. I hate how glitchy the core OS touch support is; the touch keyboard only pops up about half the time, and manually getting it to show up is a pain. Unbelievably, Gnome is more consistent - which is saying something because Linux touch support is so bad. Periodically, the dock will just decide it doesn't want to hide anymore. There's about a 50% chance if I switch it into tablet mode that screen rotation will work. The default permission prompts don't always tell me which application is requesting authentication. I have #?x! ads in my start menu. The whole UX is just really... buggy and nonsensical and it feels like none of the designers ever tried to use it outside of demo conditions. Maybe that's my device or whatever, but I'm on a Surface Pro. Microsoft should be able to get that right. I could go on, but there's not much point. In comparison, my Linux desktop basically never breaks. I set it up once, and it just works. Same for my parents. Especially with the rise of the web, app support is good enough for them and, again, they want their apps to be usable, not flashy, and Open Source usually fits that criteria just fine. The type of person who can get by with an Android tablet instead of a desktop, could also probably get by with a small Linux laptop and might even prefer it now. There are obviously exceptions, but I don't have a lot of problem recommending Linux to people anymore, because I've found most people want a computer that is set up specifically for them, and then they just want it to work consistently. (Opinion me) most people do not want their computers to evolve, or delight them or something. I think the demographic that Windows and Apple court is real, but narrower than you might suspect.

e12e 8y ago
> ... I have maybe two essential applications that don't run on Linux. I would switch it over in a heartbeat if I could, They don't run under wine? (or in a Reactos vm? I assume they don't make sense to run in a vm, as if they did, you'd already run Windows in a vm?)
- danShumway 8y ago
  Unfortunately no, but I retry them every three or four months to see if they will. Clip Studio is close - really close, but color selection doesn't work and touch controls are messed up (especially with the stylus eraser). Touch support in Linux in general is awful, even with apps that I expect better of like Firefox or MyPaint, but it's almost good enough that I could tolerate it and switch anyway. I'm semi-hopeful that it'll cross that line in a year or two, and especially hopeful that the work Purism is doing on the Librem Phone might speed that process up. I honestly haven't tried to run a VM, I just assumed it would eat up battery too much to be useful - and since I use the tablet specifically for these apps, I'd have to spend all of my time in the VM anyway, which doesn't seem like much of an improvement :)
bitwize 8y ago
Obviously you're not using LTSB, which is what any sensible Windows 10 user would do.

wutbrodo 8y ago

> unless that person is literally just using a web browser for everything or they are a developer This describes the personal desktop usage of all of almost every single person I know. I put my dad on Linux Mint almost a decade ago, because regular tech support got much more difficult once I moved away for college. The calls for help got cut down by a factor of 10 after the switch. Its made some strides, but at least back then, Windows was way too complex for probably the bottom half of the distribution of tech savvy users.

wilsonnb 8y ago
I hear people make claims like this all the time on hacker news and reddit, and I just don't get it. The only way I can see someone who knows nothing about computers experiencing 10x less issues by switching from Windows to Linux is because they use their computer 10x less or the person they go to for tech support knows Linux better than they know Windows.
- wutbrodo 8y ago
  To be honest, I'm just as baffled in the other direction. Have you ever seen a Linux Mint system? It's hardly Gentoo. What problems are you imagining, once the setup is completed? (It should be obvious that I didn't hand my dad a Live USB and say "good luck"). Installing software is simple, safe search and click in something named "software center". Updates are the same. Performance tends to be much better. For a non tech savvy user: How do you install software on Windows? How do you avoid viruses if you're not savvy enough to intuitively pick up on which sites and emails are legit and which are malicious[1]? How do you stop 500 random programs from slowing the crap out of your computer by autostarting and running in the taskbar? This is leaving aside the piss-poor performance of the actual OS itself, which certain tech-savvy people handle by fretting about antivirus programs and the necessity of defragmentation. Go far back enough and you can't even dismiss the former of these concerns offhand, while with Linux, "don't worry about viruses" is an accurate enough directive. I could've said the same for Windows, but the collateral damage would be the very useful "don't download random software from random shady sites". For fuck's sake, at one point Windows had a virus that could infect your system _without even being opened_ (if attached to an email that was opened in Outlook). Aside from setting up his system, which I'd have to do anyway, I struggle to think of a single problem my dad has had in the ten years since he's switched that wasn't an unforced error that he'd do on any system (ie accidentally changing some setting like screen magnification and being unable to find his way back). I'm actually really curious about your answers to the above overarching question, because I similarly can't imagine what computing universe you live in that is remotely similar to the one I live in. [1] some interesting research out of MSR sometime back indicated that bad grammar and other obvious tells in scam emails were actually _intentional_, in that they filtered out all but the least savvy users, who'd have the highest percentage of susceptibility during the more labor-intensive subsequent stages of the scamming process.