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Man, the Linux crowd really sucks. Why am I even reading these comments? I'm of the opinion that the Linux desktop has never been better, and I really enjoy us

by DCKing 9y ago

Man, the Linux crowd really sucks. Why am I even reading these comments? I'm of the opinion that the Linux desktop has never been better, and I really enjoy using modern Linux desktops a lot more than I used to. To all those developers that made it possible for us to use this stuff on our computers with no strings attached: thank you. Ubuntu 18.04 is a great collection of these achievements (like many other current Linux distros). Reading these comments you'd miss that this review has a (mostly) positive conclusion and a recommendation for people to use it.

lessclue 9y ago
I’m of the same opinion. I thought Unity was alright and this new desktop is a great improvement.
ASalazarMX 9y ago
I've been using Ubuntu almost since it started, because it works and I sure as hell don't miss fiddling with X modelines or compiling my own kernel. I've stuck with the standard Ubuntu, but have tried all the flavors because I wish some degree of customization, and Gnome wishes less every time. Unfortunately they are not as polished. Since Ubuntu is so great anyway, I try to convince myself that less customization means less wasted time.
CalRobert 9y ago
I owe my career in part to the fact that I just bit the bullet, dumped windows, and switched to Ubuntu as my main OS about 7 years ago. In the war on general purpose computing they're still fighting the good fight.
- wilsonnb 9y ago
  I, for one, am happy that a war is being fought on general purpose computing because it seems to be the only way to make everything "just work" to an acceptable degree. The iPad is the least general and most locked down computer I've ever used but I love it because it just works. I've never had a problem with it. I was a diehard Linux guy for five or six years but now I run Windows 10 on all my computers and spend most of my time in the iPad anyways.
  - mpartel 9y ago
    Curated stores are fine and can indeed improve quality, but it'll be a tremendously sad day when they'll be mandated by law. Adding a 30% tax and central control on all software just because we believe users can't be taught to not install random crap is a very bleak outlook indeed. Freedom is sometimes messy, but almost always worth it.
    - wilsonnb 9y ago
      I do not support mandating those things by law. I am content with letting the Linux people do their thing while I do my thing. The only people I've only thought wanted to outlaw something are the most extreme Linux/GNU zealots who want to make it illegal for a company to lock down a computer even if it improves the user experience. It stands to reason that such zealots exist on the other side of the argument as well, but I've never encountered them.
      - mpartel 9y ago
        I didn't believe you would, but I fear it's a likely outcome if all that 99% of people ever use is a locked down system. Then misguided (or bribed) lawmakers will almost certainly start getting ideas about banning unlimited computers because "they're only used by hackers and pirates" or "because security" or something.
      - CalRobert 9y ago
        "I am content with letting the Linux people do their thing while I do my thing." The problem is that when it becomes too niche, it will be banned out of course. ("Do you have any idea what people can DO with those things??") Remember, encryption was a munition and controlled accordingly. The need for secure banking is about the only reason we're allowed that. That, and the efforts of people who demand ownership over their machines (or at least something close to it)
  - salawat 9y ago
    That is by no means the case. It just takes a good number of people getting together and settling on a set of standards. The beauty of the general purpose computing device is it can support any and all at will. Until people start thinking that "it's better to just let the big companies lock down hardware, then everything will just work!", which leads to hardware impls or subsystems like UEFI that actively fight to deprive the User of their rights to total control of their tool. No thanks. My machine. My code, my rules, and my data. No one else's. i'll accept the onus of learning how to secure and safely use it. Convenience isn't worth the sacrifice of freedom.
- nookoking 9y ago
  I do too. If Windows didn't have a god awful development environment, I would have never switched to Linux. Nor would I be the person I am today.
danShumway 9y ago
I tend to be pretty critical of Linux because I do genuinely believe there's a lot of stuff in Linux that's really bad. Would I ever give it up and switch to Windows/Mac? No, never in a million years. Compared to modern Windows 10, Gnome's UX is masterful. Linux has actually come pretty far - set up is still annoying, and some problems are still unnecessarily difficult to solve, but for the most part once you get everything up and running you have a system that just works, and that will keep on working without you having to do much. I've used Linux for a long time, but it's only recently that I've felt confident enough that I've started seriously recommending it to non-technical people. I've got my Mom running Ubuntu as her main computer, and over the past year it cut down on my technical support by about 2/3rds of what I was doing before. I think it's easy to take the good things for granted. Yeah, to a certain degree Linux is crap, but pretty much all software I or anyone else ever makes is going to be crap - that's the hard lesson you have to learn when you start developing software. It's still hands-down the best OS out there if you just want a stable, usable computer that respects you, and I still feel really grateful for it every time I boot up my computer to get actual work done.
- wilsonnb 9y ago
  I was using Gnome on Fedora for a while but I switched to Windows 10 a few months ago and can't say I've had any problems with the UX. Window snapping works. Minimizing windows works. You can do that thing where it shows a small version of everything you have open on both (win+tab on Win10, don't remember the Gnome shortcut). Recommending Linux to someone over Windows seems insane to me unless that person is literally just using a web browser for everything or they are a developer. An operating system is useless unless it runs the programs you want to run and Linux is still missing so much. Microsoft Office would be a good start.
  - danShumway 9y ago
    I run Windows 10 on a Surface Pro 3 because Linux touch support is just too bad right now and because I have maybe two essential applications that don't run on Linux. I would switch it over in a heartbeat if I could, I think the UX is really bad, it's a nightmare for me to maintain. I hate that the updates are so pushy; I boot into the computer maybe two or three times a month and pretty much every time it wants me to restart and update something. I hate that it installs new updates on startup, I don't know who decided that when I turned on a computer I'd want to wait 3-4 extra minutes for stuff to install. I've been bitten by that multiple times during work presentations and calls. I hate how glitchy the core OS touch support is; the touch keyboard only pops up about half the time, and manually getting it to show up is a pain. Unbelievably, Gnome is more consistent - which is saying something because Linux touch support is so bad. Periodically, the dock will just decide it doesn't want to hide anymore. There's about a 50% chance if I switch it into tablet mode that screen rotation will work. The default permission prompts don't always tell me which application is requesting authentication. I have #?x! ads in my start menu. The whole UX is just really... buggy and nonsensical and it feels like none of the designers ever tried to use it outside of demo conditions. Maybe that's my device or whatever, but I'm on a Surface Pro. Microsoft should be able to get that right. I could go on, but there's not much point. In comparison, my Linux desktop basically never breaks. I set it up once, and it just works. Same for my parents. Especially with the rise of the web, app support is good enough for them and, again, they want their apps to be usable, not flashy, and Open Source usually fits that criteria just fine. The type of person who can get by with an Android tablet instead of a desktop, could also probably get by with a small Linux laptop and might even prefer it now. There are obviously exceptions, but I don't have a lot of problem recommending Linux to people anymore, because I've found most people want a computer that is set up specifically for them, and then they just want it to work consistently. (Opinion me) most people do not want their computers to evolve, or delight them or something. I think the demographic that Windows and Apple court is real, but narrower than you might suspect.
yellowapple 9y ago
Usually when I'm critical of Linux (in a desktop context), it's because I see a lot of potential for Linux to be the absolute best desktop platform out there. It already blows away the competition on a lot of different metrics, but some parts of the overall user experience do sometimes feel clunky or buggy or otherwise non-optimal, and it'd be awesome for that to someday not be the case. A desktop Linux distro could combine the user-friendliness of the Mac world with the power-user-friendliness of the (pre-8) Windows world and turn both up to eleven while bringing its own element of stability and dependability. It won't get there unless problems - even if they seem minor - are identified and resolved.

by DCKing 9y ago

lessclue 9y ago

I’m of the same opinion. I thought Unity was alright and this new desktop is a great improvement.

ASalazarMX 9y ago

I've been using Ubuntu almost since it started, because it works and I sure as hell don't miss fiddling with X modelines or compiling my own kernel. I've stuck with the standard Ubuntu, but have tried all the flavors because I wish some degree of customization, and Gnome wishes less every time. Unfortunately they are not as polished. Since Ubuntu is so great anyway, I try to convince myself that less customization means less wasted time.

CalRobert 9y ago

I owe my career in part to the fact that I just bit the bullet, dumped windows, and switched to Ubuntu as my main OS about 7 years ago. In the war on general purpose computing they're still fighting the good fight.

wilsonnb 9y ago
I, for one, am happy that a war is being fought on general purpose computing because it seems to be the only way to make everything "just work" to an acceptable degree. The iPad is the least general and most locked down computer I've ever used but I love it because it just works. I've never had a problem with it. I was a diehard Linux guy for five or six years but now I run Windows 10 on all my computers and spend most of my time in the iPad anyways.
- mpartel 9y ago
  Curated stores are fine and can indeed improve quality, but it'll be a tremendously sad day when they'll be mandated by law. Adding a 30% tax and central control on all software just because we believe users can't be taught to not install random crap is a very bleak outlook indeed. Freedom is sometimes messy, but almost always worth it.
  - wilsonnb 9y ago
    I do not support mandating those things by law. I am content with letting the Linux people do their thing while I do my thing. The only people I've only thought wanted to outlaw something are the most extreme Linux/GNU zealots who want to make it illegal for a company to lock down a computer even if it improves the user experience. It stands to reason that such zealots exist on the other side of the argument as well, but I've never encountered them.
    - mpartel 9y ago
      I didn't believe you would, but I fear it's a likely outcome if all that 99% of people ever use is a locked down system. Then misguided (or bribed) lawmakers will almost certainly start getting ideas about banning unlimited computers because "they're only used by hackers and pirates" or "because security" or something.
    - CalRobert 9y ago
      "I am content with letting the Linux people do their thing while I do my thing." The problem is that when it becomes too niche, it will be banned out of course. ("Do you have any idea what people can DO with those things??") Remember, encryption was a munition and controlled accordingly. The need for secure banking is about the only reason we're allowed that. That, and the efforts of people who demand ownership over their machines (or at least something close to it)
- salawat 9y ago
  That is by no means the case. It just takes a good number of people getting together and settling on a set of standards. The beauty of the general purpose computing device is it can support any and all at will. Until people start thinking that "it's better to just let the big companies lock down hardware, then everything will just work!", which leads to hardware impls or subsystems like UEFI that actively fight to deprive the User of their rights to total control of their tool. No thanks. My machine. My code, my rules, and my data. No one else's. i'll accept the onus of learning how to secure and safely use it. Convenience isn't worth the sacrifice of freedom.
nookoking 9y ago
I do too. If Windows didn't have a god awful development environment, I would have never switched to Linux. Nor would I be the person I am today.

danShumway 9y ago

I tend to be pretty critical of Linux because I do genuinely believe there's a lot of stuff in Linux that's really bad. Would I ever give it up and switch to Windows/Mac? No, never in a million years. Compared to modern Windows 10, Gnome's UX is masterful. Linux has actually come pretty far - set up is still annoying, and some problems are still unnecessarily difficult to solve, but for the most part once you get everything up and running you have a system that just works, and that will keep on working without you having to do much. I've used Linux for a long time, but it's only recently that I've felt confident enough that I've started seriously recommending it to non-technical people. I've got my Mom running Ubuntu as her main computer, and over the past year it cut down on my technical support by about 2/3rds of what I was doing before. I think it's easy to take the good things for granted. Yeah, to a certain degree Linux is crap, but pretty much all software I or anyone else ever makes is going to be crap - that's the hard lesson you have to learn when you start developing software. It's still hands-down the best OS out there if you just want a stable, usable computer that respects you, and I still feel really grateful for it every time I boot up my computer to get actual work done.

wilsonnb 9y ago
I was using Gnome on Fedora for a while but I switched to Windows 10 a few months ago and can't say I've had any problems with the UX. Window snapping works. Minimizing windows works. You can do that thing where it shows a small version of everything you have open on both (win+tab on Win10, don't remember the Gnome shortcut). Recommending Linux to someone over Windows seems insane to me unless that person is literally just using a web browser for everything or they are a developer. An operating system is useless unless it runs the programs you want to run and Linux is still missing so much. Microsoft Office would be a good start.
- danShumway 9y ago
  I run Windows 10 on a Surface Pro 3 because Linux touch support is just too bad right now and because I have maybe two essential applications that don't run on Linux. I would switch it over in a heartbeat if I could, I think the UX is really bad, it's a nightmare for me to maintain. I hate that the updates are so pushy; I boot into the computer maybe two or three times a month and pretty much every time it wants me to restart and update something. I hate that it installs new updates on startup, I don't know who decided that when I turned on a computer I'd want to wait 3-4 extra minutes for stuff to install. I've been bitten by that multiple times during work presentations and calls. I hate how glitchy the core OS touch support is; the touch keyboard only pops up about half the time, and manually getting it to show up is a pain. Unbelievably, Gnome is more consistent - which is saying something because Linux touch support is so bad. Periodically, the dock will just decide it doesn't want to hide anymore. There's about a 50% chance if I switch it into tablet mode that screen rotation will work. The default permission prompts don't always tell me which application is requesting authentication. I have #?x! ads in my start menu. The whole UX is just really... buggy and nonsensical and it feels like none of the designers ever tried to use it outside of demo conditions. Maybe that's my device or whatever, but I'm on a Surface Pro. Microsoft should be able to get that right. I could go on, but there's not much point. In comparison, my Linux desktop basically never breaks. I set it up once, and it just works. Same for my parents. Especially with the rise of the web, app support is good enough for them and, again, they want their apps to be usable, not flashy, and Open Source usually fits that criteria just fine. The type of person who can get by with an Android tablet instead of a desktop, could also probably get by with a small Linux laptop and might even prefer it now. There are obviously exceptions, but I don't have a lot of problem recommending Linux to people anymore, because I've found most people want a computer that is set up specifically for them, and then they just want it to work consistently. (Opinion me) most people do not want their computers to evolve, or delight them or something. I think the demographic that Windows and Apple court is real, but narrower than you might suspect.

yellowapple 9y ago

Usually when I'm critical of Linux (in a desktop context), it's because I see a lot of potential for Linux to be the absolute best desktop platform out there. It already blows away the competition on a lot of different metrics, but some parts of the overall user experience do sometimes feel clunky or buggy or otherwise non-optimal, and it'd be awesome for that to someday not be the case. A desktop Linux distro could combine the user-friendliness of the Mac world with the power-user-friendliness of the (pre-8) Windows world and turn both up to eleven while bringing its own element of stability and dependability. It won't get there unless problems - even if they seem minor - are identified and resolved.