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Amphibian species are thought to be the proverbial canaries in the coal mine of extinction. Frog species have been crashing, salamander species are crashing, in

Amphibian species are thought to be the proverbial canaries in the coal mine of extinction. Frog species have been crashing, salamander species are crashing, insect numbers have been crashing, reef systems are dying. When it all falls down on our heads, we won’t be able to say we didn’t have massive flashing warning signs.

edflsafoiewq 8y ago
What can we do?
- pjc50 8y ago
  They live quite well in captivity, so are unlikely to go fully extinct. But the real requirement would be to preserve the habitats, which depends on the politics and economy of Mexico.
- GuiA 8y ago
  Pigovian taxes on a massive scale.
  - ars 8y ago
    Who would you tax for pollution caused by sewage leaking after a flood? You need your population to have more money, not less, so that they can afford to pay for improvements in their living environment. It's not an accident that the higher the standard of living, the lower pollution is.
    - flukus 8y ago
      > It's not an accident that the higher the standard of living, the lower pollution is. Citation? The richest countries in the world pollute (CO2e) far more per-capita than than anyone else. Even that's with much of their pollution outsourced to developing nations.
      - ars 8y ago
        Co2 is not pollution. It has issues obviously, but it's not pollution. People are so focused on Co2 these days, they've completely forgotten about actual pollution. Forgetting is understandable in developed countries because we've all but eliminated it, so what's there to think about? But go visit some non-developed countries, or maybe read the news, and you'll suddenly realize what a huge problem actual pollution is.
        flukus 8y ago
        > the introduction of harmful substances or products into the environment - http://www.dictionary.com/browse/pollution http://www.dictionary.com/browse/pollution So Co2e is pollution, it's a harmful substance in currently produced quantities.
        ars 8y ago
        By that definition too much water would also be pollution. You can not define pollution by quantity, that completely erases the meaning of the word.
- sharp11 8y ago
  Support conservation orgs. The best ones are not just focused on nature but on sustainable systems that include humans.
  - ars 8y ago
    Like who? Every conservation org I've come across has been misanthropic. Just as an example, people who advocate for getting rid of parking, to make it harder to drive.
    - zaksoup 8y ago
      The example you cite sounds reasonable and not misanthropic to me. Disincentive personal car user/ownership and incentivize public transit use. Can you expand more on why you find that problematic?
      - ars 8y ago
        Because you are doing that by making life harder for people. Instead, make life easier, so they want to use public transit. And that means not making existing solutions worse, but rather focus only on making the new stuff better. And if that turns out to be impossible to do, then public transit is simply not a solution.
        KozmoNau7 8y ago
        It's not really possible to improve public transport beyond a certain point without impacting parking and personal car transport. If you want to improve buses, you need more of them, you need dedicated bus lanes, you need to give buses priority at intersections, and you need to modify road layouts in regards to things like one-way streets. All of these markedly improve quality of life for bus passengers, but also reduce the quality and convenience of personal car transport. Similarly, if you need to expand a rail or subway network, you need a lot of roadworks and construction, which inconveniences drivers. For streetcars, you combine the impacts of bus and rail improvements. Simply put, car drivers have been receiving preferential treatment in cities for far too long, and it's about time they were relegated to second-class transport, behind buses and rail.
- musage 8y ago
  some good suggestions here: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=noam+chomsky+what+can+we+do https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=noam+chomsky+wh...
- ars 8y ago
  Increase the standard of living so that people have the leisure to actually care about the environment. Easiest way to accomplish that is with more energy.
  - adamsea 8y ago
    ... and luckily wind and solar are or are swiftly becoming economically viable.
- newnewpdro 8y ago
  Downvote apparently. /s The single most significant thing an average uninfluential "western" individual can do currently, is not reproduce or at least reproduce less [1] [2]. Possibly then use your abundant available time and resources to inform and educate the public - try become influential, or just take it easy and watch the madness. Curbing unnecessary air travel doesn't hurt either. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/jul/12/want-to-fight-climate-change-have-fewer-children https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/jul/12/want-to-... [2] http://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1748-9326/aa7541 http://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1748-9326/aa7541
- shafyy 8y ago
  Is there a way we can build tech that helps for this?
  - shafyy 8y ago
    Why would someone downvote this?
- fogzen 8y ago
  Don’t vote Republican is probably the most important thing. Convince others to stop voting for Republicans.
  - Raticide 8y ago
    The USA would benefit a lot if it moved to a more proportional voting system. It seem ridiculous to me that such a large country effectively only has 2 parties.
    - fogzen 8y ago
      That’s totally besides the point. Let’s not ignore facts or downplay how destructive the Republican Party has been to environmental policy. Anti-environmentalism has been a major feature of the Republican Party’s agenda for decades now, and to this day they’re actively involved in rolling back environmental protections and literally denying climate change. Environmentalism has been a major distinction between Democrats and Republicans for a loooong time, and here on HN Republican voters are still trying to whitewash it and are probably the ones downvoting me. "Drill, baby, drill!” - Chairman of RNC Michael Steele "The concept of global warming was created by and for the Chinese in order to make U.S. manufacturing non-competitive." Donald Trump
      - krageon 8y ago
        It's (in my view) actually part of a more fundamental cultural issue that glorifies ignorance and faith. Faith is not a bad thing, but you shouldn't base your decisions on it if it is not necessary. Until that issue gets fixed, everyone can start voting democrat (or that other third flavour nobody seems to like) but it won't actually do anything. All the insane people will flock to the democratic party (because that's where all the power is!) and you'll have a new giant problem, just with a different name.
- DoreenMichele 8y ago
  Stop (or cut back on) flying. Drive a lot less or stop driving. Go vegetarian or at least eat less meat than the typical American does. You don't necessarily need to go vegan. Pee on a tree. (I would provide a link, but I made that a private site as it wasn't being developed.)
- adamsea 8y ago
  Vote for politicians who will Work to enact sustainable policy at the national level.
Baeocystin 8y ago
It's not all bad news, at least. Some species are recovering. https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/04/180411114118.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/04/180411114118.h...
- musage 8y ago
  Are we beginning to show signs of seriously considering actually turning "the ship" around? I would say no. So yeah, it's not all bad news.. but to me, as in"our legs are broken in this mineshaft that's quickly filling with acid and we've been crawling in circles for what seems like 3 days -- but in the last 4 hours there were two 5 minute periods where Frank stopped screaming and crying". Good news isn't good enough news.

edflsafoiewq 8y ago

What can we do?

pjc50 8y ago
They live quite well in captivity, so are unlikely to go fully extinct. But the real requirement would be to preserve the habitats, which depends on the politics and economy of Mexico.
GuiA 8y ago
Pigovian taxes on a massive scale.
- ars 8y ago
  Who would you tax for pollution caused by sewage leaking after a flood? You need your population to have more money, not less, so that they can afford to pay for improvements in their living environment. It's not an accident that the higher the standard of living, the lower pollution is.
  - flukus 8y ago
    > It's not an accident that the higher the standard of living, the lower pollution is. Citation? The richest countries in the world pollute (CO2e) far more per-capita than than anyone else. Even that's with much of their pollution outsourced to developing nations.
    - ars 8y ago
      Co2 is not pollution. It has issues obviously, but it's not pollution. People are so focused on Co2 these days, they've completely forgotten about actual pollution. Forgetting is understandable in developed countries because we've all but eliminated it, so what's there to think about? But go visit some non-developed countries, or maybe read the news, and you'll suddenly realize what a huge problem actual pollution is.
      - flukus 8y ago
        > the introduction of harmful substances or products into the environment - http://www.dictionary.com/browse/pollution http://www.dictionary.com/browse/pollution So Co2e is pollution, it's a harmful substance in currently produced quantities.
        ars 8y ago
        By that definition too much water would also be pollution. You can not define pollution by quantity, that completely erases the meaning of the word.
sharp11 8y ago
Support conservation orgs. The best ones are not just focused on nature but on sustainable systems that include humans.
- ars 8y ago
  Like who? Every conservation org I've come across has been misanthropic. Just as an example, people who advocate for getting rid of parking, to make it harder to drive.
  - zaksoup 8y ago
    The example you cite sounds reasonable and not misanthropic to me. Disincentive personal car user/ownership and incentivize public transit use. Can you expand more on why you find that problematic?
    - ars 8y ago
      Because you are doing that by making life harder for people. Instead, make life easier, so they want to use public transit. And that means not making existing solutions worse, but rather focus only on making the new stuff better. And if that turns out to be impossible to do, then public transit is simply not a solution.
      - KozmoNau7 8y ago
        It's not really possible to improve public transport beyond a certain point without impacting parking and personal car transport. If you want to improve buses, you need more of them, you need dedicated bus lanes, you need to give buses priority at intersections, and you need to modify road layouts in regards to things like one-way streets. All of these markedly improve quality of life for bus passengers, but also reduce the quality and convenience of personal car transport. Similarly, if you need to expand a rail or subway network, you need a lot of roadworks and construction, which inconveniences drivers. For streetcars, you combine the impacts of bus and rail improvements. Simply put, car drivers have been receiving preferential treatment in cities for far too long, and it's about time they were relegated to second-class transport, behind buses and rail.
musage 8y ago
some good suggestions here: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=noam+chomsky+what+can+we+do https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=noam+chomsky+wh...
ars 8y ago
Increase the standard of living so that people have the leisure to actually care about the environment. Easiest way to accomplish that is with more energy.
- adamsea 8y ago
  ... and luckily wind and solar are or are swiftly becoming economically viable.
newnewpdro 8y ago
Downvote apparently. /s The single most significant thing an average uninfluential "western" individual can do currently, is not reproduce or at least reproduce less [1] [2]. Possibly then use your abundant available time and resources to inform and educate the public - try become influential, or just take it easy and watch the madness. Curbing unnecessary air travel doesn't hurt either. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/jul/12/want-to-fight-climate-change-have-fewer-children https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/jul/12/want-to-... [2] http://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1748-9326/aa7541 http://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1748-9326/aa7541
shafyy 8y ago
Is there a way we can build tech that helps for this?
- shafyy 8y ago
  Why would someone downvote this?
fogzen 8y ago
Don’t vote Republican is probably the most important thing. Convince others to stop voting for Republicans.
- Raticide 8y ago
  The USA would benefit a lot if it moved to a more proportional voting system. It seem ridiculous to me that such a large country effectively only has 2 parties.
  - fogzen 8y ago
    That’s totally besides the point. Let’s not ignore facts or downplay how destructive the Republican Party has been to environmental policy. Anti-environmentalism has been a major feature of the Republican Party’s agenda for decades now, and to this day they’re actively involved in rolling back environmental protections and literally denying climate change. Environmentalism has been a major distinction between Democrats and Republicans for a loooong time, and here on HN Republican voters are still trying to whitewash it and are probably the ones downvoting me. "Drill, baby, drill!” - Chairman of RNC Michael Steele "The concept of global warming was created by and for the Chinese in order to make U.S. manufacturing non-competitive." Donald Trump
    - krageon 8y ago
      It's (in my view) actually part of a more fundamental cultural issue that glorifies ignorance and faith. Faith is not a bad thing, but you shouldn't base your decisions on it if it is not necessary. Until that issue gets fixed, everyone can start voting democrat (or that other third flavour nobody seems to like) but it won't actually do anything. All the insane people will flock to the democratic party (because that's where all the power is!) and you'll have a new giant problem, just with a different name.
DoreenMichele 8y ago
Stop (or cut back on) flying. Drive a lot less or stop driving. Go vegetarian or at least eat less meat than the typical American does. You don't necessarily need to go vegan. Pee on a tree. (I would provide a link, but I made that a private site as it wasn't being developed.)
adamsea 8y ago
Vote for politicians who will Work to enact sustainable policy at the national level.

Baeocystin 8y ago

It's not all bad news, at least. Some species are recovering. https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/04/180411114118.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/04/180411114118.h...

musage 8y ago
Are we beginning to show signs of seriously considering actually turning "the ship" around? I would say no. So yeah, it's not all bad news.. but to me, as in"our legs are broken in this mineshaft that's quickly filling with acid and we've been crawling in circles for what seems like 3 days -- but in the last 4 hours there were two 5 minute periods where Frank stopped screaming and crying". Good news isn't good enough news.