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It isn't about the effect. It's about being responsible for the things you help build.

by rhcom2 8y ago

skookumchuck 8y ago
The effect was von Braun diverted a vast amount of Germany's military-industrial resources into a useless weapons program, thus shortening the war. The things that make rockets effective, a nuclear warhead, and later precision guidance systems, he did not attempt to develop. Those were developed by the US and the Soviets. In the meantime, von Braun's technology got us to the moon, communications satellites, the space station, SpaceX, etc. There are many ways to look at von Braun's work. I suppose it hinges on what his intentions were - but we don't have any way to find that out. I don't think we know if he knew he was developing an ineffective weapon or not, though it seems obvious in hindsight.
- DoctorOetker 8y ago
  When Tsarist big Russia lost the war against the small Japan, the losses of the war were very demoralizing, and the seeds for the Soviet revolution were planted. Afraid of revolution the Tsarist secret police concocted the false flag plot "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion" to use the relatively affluent minority of jews as a scapegoat of all problems of the Tsarist regime. The fake news was not effective in convincing the local russian populace (who was best poised to understand the real source of their troubles) and the Soviets overthrew the Tsarists regime. However the fake news spread all over the world, and people started fearing jews, and their jewish plot. To the outside world, the fact that the Tsarist regime was overthrown may have seemed to confirm the plot... Perhaps Hitler too, was against Nazism (after all he was no blonde). Perhaps as a geopolitical visionary he foresaw the future rise of China and allied with Japan to slow their future rise, perhaps he foresaw a twenty-year war, if he did not first slowly chase away jews like Einstein during the interbellum such that the latter would eventually be able to write an important letter to president Roosevelt. Perhaps he fully understood the "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion" to be a fabrication, and intended for the jews to have their own state, which would only happen if they were internationally regarded as some predominant victim of huge proportions. Perhaps he evaluated all paths to defuse the clusterfuck, but decided that a shorter premature 5-year war, and the irreversible tarnishing of his name and image was the smallest cost to pay. Perhaps he was so selfless. Except I dont buy any of this crap. Did Von Braun really intend to shorten the war with his rocket programme? If my aunt had balls, she would have been my uncle.
  - skookumchuck 8y ago
    Did Braun really intend to quickly lose the war? I seriously doubt it. Did you know that in 1944 von Braun was arrested by the Gestapo for sabotage for saying that his intention was never to create a war weapon, but to obtain money for experiments and confirmation of their theories? The Gestapo was going to shoot him, until Dornberger rescued him. "V-2" by Dornberger, pg 216
    - DoctorOetker 8y ago
      obviously I don't believe that Braun intentionally squandered Nazi resources to shorten the war, just like I don't believe Hitler was fighting Nazism from the inside out. I a willing to believe of course that Braun's goal was scientific progress, irrespective of the role it played in the war: does/can it actually help the Nazis? or is he sabotaging the war effort? He doesn't care, he just wants scientific progress irregardless of the war, which liberates funds...
- ams6110 8y ago
  Von Braun certainly knew that human beings were enslaved and were being worked to death to build his rockets.
  - skookumchuck 8y ago
    That's right. And the Gestapo arrested him at one point and were going to shoot him for not wholeheartedly working on the rockets, until he was rescued by Dornberger. What would you do in such a situation? We all sit safely in front of our keyboards certain in our moral rectitude, but how many of us have been tested?

It isn't about the effect. It's about being responsible for the things you help build.

by rhcom2 8y ago

It isn't about the effect. It's about being responsible for the things you help build.

The effect was von Braun diverted a vast amount of Germany's military-industrial resources into a useless weapons program, thus shortening the war. The things that make rockets effective, a nuclear warhead, and later precision guidance systems, he did not attempt to develop. Those were developed by the US and the Soviets. In the meantime, von Braun's technology got us to the moon, communications satellites, the space station, SpaceX, etc. There are many ways to look at von Braun's work. I suppose it hinges on what his intentions were - but we don't have any way to find that out. I don't think we know if he knew he was developing an ineffective weapon or not, though it seems obvious in hindsight.

DoctorOetker 8y ago
When Tsarist big Russia lost the war against the small Japan, the losses of the war were very demoralizing, and the seeds for the Soviet revolution were planted. Afraid of revolution the Tsarist secret police concocted the false flag plot "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion" to use the relatively affluent minority of jews as a scapegoat of all problems of the Tsarist regime. The fake news was not effective in convincing the local russian populace (who was best poised to understand the real source of their troubles) and the Soviets overthrew the Tsarists regime. However the fake news spread all over the world, and people started fearing jews, and their jewish plot. To the outside world, the fact that the Tsarist regime was overthrown may have seemed to confirm the plot... Perhaps Hitler too, was against Nazism (after all he was no blonde). Perhaps as a geopolitical visionary he foresaw the future rise of China and allied with Japan to slow their future rise, perhaps he foresaw a twenty-year war, if he did not first slowly chase away jews like Einstein during the interbellum such that the latter would eventually be able to write an important letter to president Roosevelt. Perhaps he fully understood the "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion" to be a fabrication, and intended for the jews to have their own state, which would only happen if they were internationally regarded as some predominant victim of huge proportions. Perhaps he evaluated all paths to defuse the clusterfuck, but decided that a shorter premature 5-year war, and the irreversible tarnishing of his name and image was the smallest cost to pay. Perhaps he was so selfless. Except I dont buy any of this crap. Did Von Braun really intend to shorten the war with his rocket programme? If my aunt had balls, she would have been my uncle.
- skookumchuck 8y ago
  Did Braun really intend to quickly lose the war? I seriously doubt it. Did you know that in 1944 von Braun was arrested by the Gestapo for sabotage for saying that his intention was never to create a war weapon, but to obtain money for experiments and confirmation of their theories? The Gestapo was going to shoot him, until Dornberger rescued him. "V-2" by Dornberger, pg 216
  - DoctorOetker 8y ago
    obviously I don't believe that Braun intentionally squandered Nazi resources to shorten the war, just like I don't believe Hitler was fighting Nazism from the inside out. I a willing to believe of course that Braun's goal was scientific progress, irrespective of the role it played in the war: does/can it actually help the Nazis? or is he sabotaging the war effort? He doesn't care, he just wants scientific progress irregardless of the war, which liberates funds...
ams6110 8y ago
Von Braun certainly knew that human beings were enslaved and were being worked to death to build his rockets.
- skookumchuck 8y ago
  That's right. And the Gestapo arrested him at one point and were going to shoot him for not wholeheartedly working on the rockets, until he was rescued by Dornberger. What would you do in such a situation? We all sit safely in front of our keyboards certain in our moral rectitude, but how many of us have been tested?