7 ms·

"Once the rockets are up, who cares where they come down? That's not my department," says Wernher von Braun.

by rhcom2 8y ago

0xdeadbeefbabe 8y ago
This isn't like rockets or poison gas. Poison gas is probably the most insulted. Edit: And since you love hyperbole so much: Good engineers will want to work on this problem (both sides technically), just as Feynman worked on the atom bomb.
- monocasa 8y ago
  I mean, it's a US company helping dictatorships block access to stuff like The Human Rights Campaign. Pretty close in my mind.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - cgh 8y ago
    Netsweeper is not a US company.
    - monocasa 8y ago
      Whatever, Canadian. My point still stands.
      - StudentStuff 8y ago
        Its likely Canadian, the gov't up there offers massive tax and investment incentives if your small, and for slightly larger companies they still have a great tax situation compared to the US. Plus your products avoid US export controls and appeal to countries that would otherwise be off limits. An interesting article on what Canada offers tech companies: https://www.theglobeandmail.com/technology/business-technology/shredding-some-myths-about-canadas-tech-startup-subsidies/article18921138/ https://www.theglobeandmail.com/technology/business-technolo...
        monocasa 8y ago
        Yeah, they're from Ontario.
- torpfactory 8y ago
  Tell that to a homosexual in Saudi who gets sent to prison.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
- __jal 8y ago
  Sure. Because mass censorship tools designed to identify categories of undesirables has to many positive applications. > Good engineers will want to work on this problem So? A lot of "good engineers" are horrible people from an ethical perspective. Just like any other category of humanity.
- xevb3k 8y ago
  I’d argue that if totally effective limiting discourse, and limiting what it is acceptable to believe/think can be worse. I don’t see that in the extreme case, denying a person of any human interaction for their lifetime is any better than killing them for example.
skookumchuck 8y ago
The V2 rocket program consumed a vast amount of Germany's resources, to pretty much zero military effect. If they'd expended those resources on things like jet aircraft, it might have made a difference. The V2 program helped lose the war for the Germans.
- rhcom2 8y ago
  It isn't about the effect. It's about being responsible for the things you help build.
  - skookumchuck 8y ago
    The effect was von Braun diverted a vast amount of Germany's military-industrial resources into a useless weapons program, thus shortening the war. The things that make rockets effective, a nuclear warhead, and later precision guidance systems, he did not attempt to develop. Those were developed by the US and the Soviets. In the meantime, von Braun's technology got us to the moon, communications satellites, the space station, SpaceX, etc. There are many ways to look at von Braun's work. I suppose it hinges on what his intentions were - but we don't have any way to find that out. I don't think we know if he knew he was developing an ineffective weapon or not, though it seems obvious in hindsight.
    - DoctorOetker 8y ago
      When Tsarist big Russia lost the war against the small Japan, the losses of the war were very demoralizing, and the seeds for the Soviet revolution were planted. Afraid of revolution the Tsarist secret police concocted the false flag plot "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion" to use the relatively affluent minority of jews as a scapegoat of all problems of the Tsarist regime. The fake news was not effective in convincing the local russian populace (who was best poised to understand the real source of their troubles) and the Soviets overthrew the Tsarists regime. However the fake news spread all over the world, and people started fearing jews, and their jewish plot. To the outside world, the fact that the Tsarist regime was overthrown may have seemed to confirm the plot... Perhaps Hitler too, was against Nazism (after all he was no blonde). Perhaps as a geopolitical visionary he foresaw the future rise of China and allied with Japan to slow their future rise, perhaps he foresaw a twenty-year war, if he did not first slowly chase away jews like Einstein during the interbellum such that the latter would eventually be able to write an important letter to president Roosevelt. Perhaps he fully understood the "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion" to be a fabrication, and intended for the jews to have their own state, which would only happen if they were internationally regarded as some predominant victim of huge proportions. Perhaps he evaluated all paths to defuse the clusterfuck, but decided that a shorter premature 5-year war, and the irreversible tarnishing of his name and image was the smallest cost to pay. Perhaps he was so selfless. Except I dont buy any of this crap. Did Von Braun really intend to shorten the war with his rocket programme? If my aunt had balls, she would have been my uncle.

"Once the rockets are up, who cares where they come down? That's not my department," says Wernher von Braun.

by rhcom2 8y ago

"Once the rockets are up, who cares where they come down? That's not my department," says Wernher von Braun.

This isn't like rockets or poison gas. Poison gas is probably the most insulted. Edit: And since you love hyperbole so much: Good engineers will want to work on this problem (both sides technically), just as Feynman worked on the atom bomb.

monocasa 8y ago
I mean, it's a US company helping dictatorships block access to stuff like The Human Rights Campaign. Pretty close in my mind.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- cgh 8y ago
  Netsweeper is not a US company.
  - monocasa 8y ago
    Whatever, Canadian. My point still stands.
    - StudentStuff 8y ago
      Its likely Canadian, the gov't up there offers massive tax and investment incentives if your small, and for slightly larger companies they still have a great tax situation compared to the US. Plus your products avoid US export controls and appeal to countries that would otherwise be off limits. An interesting article on what Canada offers tech companies: https://www.theglobeandmail.com/technology/business-technology/shredding-some-myths-about-canadas-tech-startup-subsidies/article18921138/ https://www.theglobeandmail.com/technology/business-technolo...
      - monocasa 8y ago
        Yeah, they're from Ontario.
torpfactory 8y ago
Tell that to a homosexual in Saudi who gets sent to prison.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
__jal 8y ago
Sure. Because mass censorship tools designed to identify categories of undesirables has to many positive applications. > Good engineers will want to work on this problem So? A lot of "good engineers" are horrible people from an ethical perspective. Just like any other category of humanity.
xevb3k 8y ago
I’d argue that if totally effective limiting discourse, and limiting what it is acceptable to believe/think can be worse. I don’t see that in the extreme case, denying a person of any human interaction for their lifetime is any better than killing them for example.

skookumchuck 8y ago

The V2 rocket program consumed a vast amount of Germany's resources, to pretty much zero military effect. If they'd expended those resources on things like jet aircraft, it might have made a difference. The V2 program helped lose the war for the Germans.

rhcom2 8y ago
It isn't about the effect. It's about being responsible for the things you help build.
- skookumchuck 8y ago
  The effect was von Braun diverted a vast amount of Germany's military-industrial resources into a useless weapons program, thus shortening the war. The things that make rockets effective, a nuclear warhead, and later precision guidance systems, he did not attempt to develop. Those were developed by the US and the Soviets. In the meantime, von Braun's technology got us to the moon, communications satellites, the space station, SpaceX, etc. There are many ways to look at von Braun's work. I suppose it hinges on what his intentions were - but we don't have any way to find that out. I don't think we know if he knew he was developing an ineffective weapon or not, though it seems obvious in hindsight.
  - DoctorOetker 8y ago
    When Tsarist big Russia lost the war against the small Japan, the losses of the war were very demoralizing, and the seeds for the Soviet revolution were planted. Afraid of revolution the Tsarist secret police concocted the false flag plot "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion" to use the relatively affluent minority of jews as a scapegoat of all problems of the Tsarist regime. The fake news was not effective in convincing the local russian populace (who was best poised to understand the real source of their troubles) and the Soviets overthrew the Tsarists regime. However the fake news spread all over the world, and people started fearing jews, and their jewish plot. To the outside world, the fact that the Tsarist regime was overthrown may have seemed to confirm the plot... Perhaps Hitler too, was against Nazism (after all he was no blonde). Perhaps as a geopolitical visionary he foresaw the future rise of China and allied with Japan to slow their future rise, perhaps he foresaw a twenty-year war, if he did not first slowly chase away jews like Einstein during the interbellum such that the latter would eventually be able to write an important letter to president Roosevelt. Perhaps he fully understood the "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion" to be a fabrication, and intended for the jews to have their own state, which would only happen if they were internationally regarded as some predominant victim of huge proportions. Perhaps he evaluated all paths to defuse the clusterfuck, but decided that a shorter premature 5-year war, and the irreversible tarnishing of his name and image was the smallest cost to pay. Perhaps he was so selfless. Except I dont buy any of this crap. Did Von Braun really intend to shorten the war with his rocket programme? If my aunt had balls, she would have been my uncle.