4 ms·

what makes it legal for an ISP (on behalf of an end-user) to request a microsoft server for the recovery disc download and then send this stream of bits to the

what makes it legal for an ISP (on behalf of an end-user) to request a microsoft server for the recovery disc download and then send this stream of bits to the end-user, but then illegal for Lundgren (also on behalf of an end-user) to request a microsoft server for the recovery disc download and then send a disc of those bts to the end-user? Is it because Lundgren is no ISP, or is it because the disc is considered a medium of exchange?

mbreese 9y ago
Nothing grants the ISP rights to request the data. Anyone can ask Microsoft for the data. However, only Microsoft can decide whether or not to grant the request and actually send the data. By making physical copies, Lundgren took Microsoft out of that equation. Now it was him and not Microsoft deciding who could get that data. So, unless Microsoft has granted you a license to distribute, then it doesn’t matter how much it costs... it isn’t legal. (Especially if you slap Microsoft and Dell logos on the disks.) The copyright holder gets to determine how their data is distributed and what strings to put on that agreement. This is good. This is also what gives the GPL teeth...
- DoctorOetker 9y ago
  obviously when a user goes to download the recovery disk from Microsoft, this does not happen directly: his requests are received by his ISP and then the last non-microsoft device asks the first microsoft device for the file. From then on the ISP starts receiving a stream of bits. And the ISP then distributes them on to the original user. Cables and optical fibres are also physical media. Furthermore the ISP will also have distributed all the requisite SSL handshakes, such that the stream from the perspective of the user can be effectively seen as branded with the Microsoft logo (optionally displayed with a secure lock symbol depending on the browser)... Now if we all realize that ISP's are allowed to shamelessly distribute the recovery disk branded as authentic M$ warez, the judge might have been made to understand that it was not obvious for Lundgren that he would be forcefully fleeced.
cptskippy 9y ago
Microsoft doesn't provide recovery/restore discs for download. Microsoft provides installation images that require and prompt for a valid product key and license to use the software (except Windows 10). Most OEM Restore/Recovery media do not prompt the user for a product key. They either have key/license hidden on a recovery partition on the machine, stored in the firmware, or hardcoded on the disc. It's unclear how his disc worked but what is clear is that he was not a licensed software distributor and did not have the rights to distribute Microsoft's media. If someone gives away 100 free books, that doesn't give you permission to make copies of their book and sell them with the caveat that only people who received one of the free 100 books could buy them. How is this different?
- RIMR 9y ago
  Microsoft does provide recovery disks for download: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows7 https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows7 Only recently did you need to enter your license key to download them. Regardless, you need the license key to activate the OS, so these disks did not enable anyone to use the OS who did not already own a legitimate license. Microsoft's lost revenue came in the form of reduced sales of redundant licenses..
  - cptskippy 9y ago
    Your link is to installation media, not recovery/restore media. Microsoft does not make Recovery/Restore media. Recovery/Restore discs are custom made by OEMs under license from Microsoft. > Microsoft's lost revenue came in the form of reduced sales of redundant licenses.. If this were true then Microsoft would not have persuaded Federal prosecutors to lower their estimates. Originally prosecutors claimed the discs were valued at $299 a pop but Microsoft informed them that they sold refurbishers a license for $25 and that the discs were worth $20 at most.
shaki-dora 9y ago
Law isn’t an incredibly stupid set of rigid rules thst are easily overcome by being grade-school clever.
- DmenshunlAnlsis 9y ago
  I’ve noticed that a lot of programmers I’ve met on and offline seem to think that it is, and often those kind of shallow perspectives are the basis of thought in the world of cryptocurrency as well. Is it the result of how computers and programs work, inasmuch as they just do precisely what they’re told? I’ve had to explain to so many friends that unlike the world of computers, laws are interpreted, and adapt. You can’t just find a bug and “win” because it will come back and bite you.
  - DoctorOetker 9y ago
    I am fully aware laws are currently interpreted, and adapt. What you see above is merely my interpretation. Actually "void for vagueness" can be interpreted as a requirement for laws to be precisely defined, and this was not concocted by a clever cryptocurrency nerd.
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]

mbreese 9y ago

Nothing grants the ISP rights to request the data. Anyone can ask Microsoft for the data. However, only Microsoft can decide whether or not to grant the request and actually send the data. By making physical copies, Lundgren took Microsoft out of that equation. Now it was him and not Microsoft deciding who could get that data. So, unless Microsoft has granted you a license to distribute, then it doesn’t matter how much it costs... it isn’t legal. (Especially if you slap Microsoft and Dell logos on the disks.) The copyright holder gets to determine how their data is distributed and what strings to put on that agreement. This is good. This is also what gives the GPL teeth...

DoctorOetker 9y ago
obviously when a user goes to download the recovery disk from Microsoft, this does not happen directly: his requests are received by his ISP and then the last non-microsoft device asks the first microsoft device for the file. From then on the ISP starts receiving a stream of bits. And the ISP then distributes them on to the original user. Cables and optical fibres are also physical media. Furthermore the ISP will also have distributed all the requisite SSL handshakes, such that the stream from the perspective of the user can be effectively seen as branded with the Microsoft logo (optionally displayed with a secure lock symbol depending on the browser)... Now if we all realize that ISP's are allowed to shamelessly distribute the recovery disk branded as authentic M$ warez, the judge might have been made to understand that it was not obvious for Lundgren that he would be forcefully fleeced.

cptskippy 9y ago

Microsoft doesn't provide recovery/restore discs for download. Microsoft provides installation images that require and prompt for a valid product key and license to use the software (except Windows 10). Most OEM Restore/Recovery media do not prompt the user for a product key. They either have key/license hidden on a recovery partition on the machine, stored in the firmware, or hardcoded on the disc. It's unclear how his disc worked but what is clear is that he was not a licensed software distributor and did not have the rights to distribute Microsoft's media. If someone gives away 100 free books, that doesn't give you permission to make copies of their book and sell them with the caveat that only people who received one of the free 100 books could buy them. How is this different?

RIMR 9y ago
Microsoft does provide recovery disks for download: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows7 https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows7 Only recently did you need to enter your license key to download them. Regardless, you need the license key to activate the OS, so these disks did not enable anyone to use the OS who did not already own a legitimate license. Microsoft's lost revenue came in the form of reduced sales of redundant licenses..
- cptskippy 9y ago
  Your link is to installation media, not recovery/restore media. Microsoft does not make Recovery/Restore media. Recovery/Restore discs are custom made by OEMs under license from Microsoft. > Microsoft's lost revenue came in the form of reduced sales of redundant licenses.. If this were true then Microsoft would not have persuaded Federal prosecutors to lower their estimates. Originally prosecutors claimed the discs were valued at $299 a pop but Microsoft informed them that they sold refurbishers a license for $25 and that the discs were worth $20 at most.

shaki-dora 9y ago

Law isn’t an incredibly stupid set of rigid rules thst are easily overcome by being grade-school clever.

DmenshunlAnlsis 9y ago
I’ve noticed that a lot of programmers I’ve met on and offline seem to think that it is, and often those kind of shallow perspectives are the basis of thought in the world of cryptocurrency as well. Is it the result of how computers and programs work, inasmuch as they just do precisely what they’re told? I’ve had to explain to so many friends that unlike the world of computers, laws are interpreted, and adapt. You can’t just find a bug and “win” because it will come back and bite you.
- DoctorOetker 9y ago
  I am fully aware laws are currently interpreted, and adapt. What you see above is merely my interpretation. Actually "void for vagueness" can be interpreted as a requirement for laws to be precisely defined, and this was not concocted by a clever cryptocurrency nerd.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]