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As a CEO, you can have a business model that is ethically and morally wrong without getting into jail. As a CEO, you can ignore obvious security flaws leading

As a CEO, you can have a business model that is ethically and morally wrong without getting into jail. As a CEO, you can ignore obvious security flaws leading to 100 million social security numbers getting leaked without getting into jail. As a CEO, you can sexually harass your employees without getting into jail. Try and save the world by repurpose old computers, causing one of the biggest companies in the world to maybe lose 0.0000001% of their revenue and you're fucked. Shame on you, Microsoft.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
jiveturkey 9y ago
he didn’t actually cause anyone to lose revenue. microsoft isn’t pressing charges against him in this case. (to my best understanding)
- reimertz 9y ago
  They might argue that repurposing old computers and licenses attached to said computer might have an (minimal) effect on Microsofts revenue since that might lead to potential sells not happening. That is the only reason I can see why they would pursue a case like this. But I cannot phantom how they cannot see how this will backfire quite badly, making them look both greedy and environmentally disconnected.
  - DoctorOetker 9y ago
    whats next? "Diet coach Daisy, sent to jail as McDonalds loses customers" "CPU designer Claire, sent to jail as its optimized caching algorithm lowers demand for RAM sales" "Louis Pasteur, unearthed from the grave, incarcerated as milk sales fall due to longer shelf-life"
    - AnIdiotOnTheNet 9y ago
      Wouldn't be surprising really. If you base your society on worshiping greed, don't be surprised when it ends up being run by the greedy.
    - usaphp 9y ago
      None of your examples actually use intellectual property of McDonald’s, ram or milk products. It’s like selling your own burgers with less calories and calling them Big Macs and selling them next door from McDonald’s store. You can’t do that according to law
      - RIMR 9y ago
        I don't see your point. You can't use the disks without already possessing a license to use the disks. Without a license, the disks are useless - unless you buy a license. It's not like he was giving people keygens and cracks. He was just giving them the disc, burned from an ISO available for free on Microsoft's website, for the price of the blank medium used - and then giving people the information they needed to use their existing license rather than purchase a new one. His crime appears to have been limiting Microsoft's ability to get people to pay for excessive licenses.
        usaphp 9y ago
        He was taking the restore media, burning it onto discs _with official Microsoft and Dell logos on them_ and then _selling them to computer refurbishers who would then include them with PCs they were selling._ In other words, people were buying PCs with these counterfeit restore discs passed off as actual Dell/Microsoft product.
      - jonathankoren 9y ago
        But your example also isn’t what happened. A more accurate Big Mac example would be McDonald’s is giving away Big Macs, so you go and get a free Big Mac, and then give that Big Mac to your friend. At that point McDonald’s cries that you’re giving away counterfeit Big Macs.
- monocasa 9y ago
  > microsoft isn’t pressing charges against him in this case. “These sales of counterfeit operating systems,” Microsoft lawyer Bonnie MacNaughton wrote to the judge, “displaced Microsoft’s potential sales of genuine operating systems.” But Lundgren’s disks had no licenses and were intended for computers that already had licenses."
  - jonathankoren 9y ago
    I’m really confused on what a “counterfeit operating system” would be. The only thing I can think of is some Linux distro made to look like Windows.
    - slim 9y ago
      Nowadays counterfeit means the vendor says it's counterfeit. The burden is on the buyer to prove it's not
    - risotto_groupon 9y ago
      the [28,000] disks had "labels nearly identical to the discs provided by Dell for its computers and had the Windows and Dell logos," the Times wrote. As a result, Lundgren pleaded guilty to two of 21 charges, conspiracy and copyright infringement. He told the paper, "If I had just written 'Eric's Restore Disc' on there, it would have been fine."
      - monocasa 9y ago
        But, to be fair, they are byte for byte the same. It'd be one thing to use the trademarks on something that wasn't originally Microsoft's (or maybe had modified it). But this isn't a ghost shift Louis Vuitton bag, it's literally exactly the same. Using Microsoft's trademark isn't misrepresenting the product.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
JumpCrisscross 9y ago
> you can have a business model that is ethically and morally wrong without getting into jail Rule of law. You go to jail for breaking the law, not for being unethical or immoral. Societies which forget this distinction fall fast. (Legislation, turning morals and ethics into laws, is the intermediating process your complaint more properly addresses.)
- onli 9y ago
  There is no law violated here.
  - DanBC 9y ago
    Most copyright jursidictions make a difference for non-commercial copyrigth infringement and commercial copyright infringement. Most of them put commercial copyright infringement in the criminal offence category.
    - balls187 9y ago
      The law violation is akin to being ticketed for jaywalking across an empty road. The court ignored expert witness testimony that the disks were useless without a valid license and came up with a ludicrous amount. The defendants belief was that many customers weren't knowledgeable enough to download restore images from the internet. He was selling them to used computer shops so they could provide them to their customers as a courtesy. He charged $0.25 per disc, and had 28,000. So his total would have been $7k? He eventually sold them for less than $5k. Not any kind of windfall profit. Given you can download those restore images for free, what exactly was the copy right infringement?
      - JumpCrisscross 9y ago
        > The court ignored expert witness testimony Do we know why? Courts don't throw out testimony for no reason. In any case, from what I understand the calculation of value principally factors into the fine. The jail time results from the defendant selling disks with others' logos on them.
john_wang_doe 9y ago
Don't forget environmental disasters, they just get a nice golden parachute to leave

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

jiveturkey 9y ago

he didn’t actually cause anyone to lose revenue. microsoft isn’t pressing charges against him in this case. (to my best understanding)

reimertz 9y ago
They might argue that repurposing old computers and licenses attached to said computer might have an (minimal) effect on Microsofts revenue since that might lead to potential sells not happening. That is the only reason I can see why they would pursue a case like this. But I cannot phantom how they cannot see how this will backfire quite badly, making them look both greedy and environmentally disconnected.
- DoctorOetker 9y ago
  whats next? "Diet coach Daisy, sent to jail as McDonalds loses customers" "CPU designer Claire, sent to jail as its optimized caching algorithm lowers demand for RAM sales" "Louis Pasteur, unearthed from the grave, incarcerated as milk sales fall due to longer shelf-life"
  - AnIdiotOnTheNet 9y ago
    Wouldn't be surprising really. If you base your society on worshiping greed, don't be surprised when it ends up being run by the greedy.
  - usaphp 9y ago
    None of your examples actually use intellectual property of McDonald’s, ram or milk products. It’s like selling your own burgers with less calories and calling them Big Macs and selling them next door from McDonald’s store. You can’t do that according to law
    - RIMR 9y ago
      I don't see your point. You can't use the disks without already possessing a license to use the disks. Without a license, the disks are useless - unless you buy a license. It's not like he was giving people keygens and cracks. He was just giving them the disc, burned from an ISO available for free on Microsoft's website, for the price of the blank medium used - and then giving people the information they needed to use their existing license rather than purchase a new one. His crime appears to have been limiting Microsoft's ability to get people to pay for excessive licenses.
      - usaphp 9y ago
        He was taking the restore media, burning it onto discs _with official Microsoft and Dell logos on them_ and then _selling them to computer refurbishers who would then include them with PCs they were selling._ In other words, people were buying PCs with these counterfeit restore discs passed off as actual Dell/Microsoft product.
    - jonathankoren 9y ago
      But your example also isn’t what happened. A more accurate Big Mac example would be McDonald’s is giving away Big Macs, so you go and get a free Big Mac, and then give that Big Mac to your friend. At that point McDonald’s cries that you’re giving away counterfeit Big Macs.
monocasa 9y ago
> microsoft isn’t pressing charges against him in this case. “These sales of counterfeit operating systems,” Microsoft lawyer Bonnie MacNaughton wrote to the judge, “displaced Microsoft’s potential sales of genuine operating systems.” But Lundgren’s disks had no licenses and were intended for computers that already had licenses."
- jonathankoren 9y ago
  I’m really confused on what a “counterfeit operating system” would be. The only thing I can think of is some Linux distro made to look like Windows.
  - slim 9y ago
    Nowadays counterfeit means the vendor says it's counterfeit. The burden is on the buyer to prove it's not
  - risotto_groupon 9y ago
    the [28,000] disks had "labels nearly identical to the discs provided by Dell for its computers and had the Windows and Dell logos," the Times wrote. As a result, Lundgren pleaded guilty to two of 21 charges, conspiracy and copyright infringement. He told the paper, "If I had just written 'Eric's Restore Disc' on there, it would have been fine."
    - monocasa 9y ago
      But, to be fair, they are byte for byte the same. It'd be one thing to use the trademarks on something that wasn't originally Microsoft's (or maybe had modified it). But this isn't a ghost shift Louis Vuitton bag, it's literally exactly the same. Using Microsoft's trademark isn't misrepresenting the product.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

JumpCrisscross 9y ago

> you can have a business model that is ethically and morally wrong without getting into jail Rule of law. You go to jail for breaking the law, not for being unethical or immoral. Societies which forget this distinction fall fast. (Legislation, turning morals and ethics into laws, is the intermediating process your complaint more properly addresses.)

onli 9y ago
There is no law violated here.
- DanBC 9y ago
  Most copyright jursidictions make a difference for non-commercial copyrigth infringement and commercial copyright infringement. Most of them put commercial copyright infringement in the criminal offence category.
  - balls187 9y ago
    The law violation is akin to being ticketed for jaywalking across an empty road. The court ignored expert witness testimony that the disks were useless without a valid license and came up with a ludicrous amount. The defendants belief was that many customers weren't knowledgeable enough to download restore images from the internet. He was selling them to used computer shops so they could provide them to their customers as a courtesy. He charged $0.25 per disc, and had 28,000. So his total would have been $7k? He eventually sold them for less than $5k. Not any kind of windfall profit. Given you can download those restore images for free, what exactly was the copy right infringement?
    - JumpCrisscross 9y ago
      > The court ignored expert witness testimony Do we know why? Courts don't throw out testimony for no reason. In any case, from what I understand the calculation of value principally factors into the fine. The jail time results from the defendant selling disks with others' logos on them.

john_wang_doe 9y ago

Don't forget environmental disasters, they just get a nice golden parachute to leave