6 ms·

I think this is "whataboutism." America's respect for individual liberty and the rule of law has eroded over the years, but it is still considerably stronger t

by api 9y ago

I think this is "whataboutism." America's respect for individual liberty and the rule of law has eroded over the years, but it is still considerably stronger than what's found in China. You see some of the same corruption and autocratic tendencies on both sides of the Pacific but there is a substantial difference in degree and pervasiveness. We are not the best in the world (several EU countries are better) but claiming the USA is equivalent to the PRC just lowers the bar. In China many of the kinds of open anti-state discussions that happen regularly here would get people arrested, not to mention criticism of leadership. Try talking openly about Xi Jinpeng the way lots of Americans talk about Donald Trump (or talked about Barack Obama). I was driving around Irvine, CA the other day and saw an anti-anti-immigration protest with signs comparing Trump to a chimpanzee and Hitler. Do that in China in an affluent section of Beijing. Dare you. Edit: you can also buy Donald Trump Piñatas in Santa Ana, a heavily Hispanic area of LA/OC metro. Try selling a Xi Jinpeng piñata in Beijing.

throw2016 9y ago
China and the US have different histories. World affairs are not simplistic binaries of good and bad. Political systems take time to evolve. Western Europe evolved from feudalism over 300 years. China has 1.3 billion people to take care of. This is not a joke. Let them manage and make the transition their way without sanctimonious judgement from others. The USA is effectively two party state with both parties propping up oligarchies and special interests with a media who have long ceased to function as a free and independent press and have reduced themselves to mouthpieces for entrenched interests. The ability to stand on a street and criticize your leader is not the only sign of democracy, the ability to effect change and have a government responsive to peoples needs is. Studies have shown and people can see how the US political establishment are far more responsive to special interests and the rich than the general public. So what is democracy? Perhaps things are not simplistic or black and white, and continuing to affect a moral high ground inspite of alarming deterioration betrays not only a lack of fundamental concern for any articulated values but also its abuse as a mere political tool to beat others with without any context of global history and world affairs.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
dis-sys 9y ago
> America's respect for individual liberty and the rule of law has eroded over the years, but it is still considerably stronger than what's found in China. individual liberty such as those mass shootings protected by the constitution? if you do believe there is real democracy in your country, maybe you can talk to your democratically elected local representatives and make some _real changes_ in that aspect first? talk is cheap, show me your democracy.
- freeone3000 9y ago
  A lot of people believe that private ownership of guns is an important individual right - a majority in some areas. This is democracy, even when it produces outcomes I disagree with.
  - dis-sys 9y ago
    yet the same people are jumping up and down lecturing Chinese about how bad is the CCP. I thought it is up to them to judge that.
darepublic 9y ago
Pointing out that America is just as bad would be a fair point (not whataboutism) because YC does so much business in America. So criticizing YC for dealing with a government just like America but is not America is not an invalid point. However I agree with others that China's tyranny is on a different level.

by api 9y ago

throw2016 9y ago

China and the US have different histories. World affairs are not simplistic binaries of good and bad. Political systems take time to evolve. Western Europe evolved from feudalism over 300 years. China has 1.3 billion people to take care of. This is not a joke. Let them manage and make the transition their way without sanctimonious judgement from others. The USA is effectively two party state with both parties propping up oligarchies and special interests with a media who have long ceased to function as a free and independent press and have reduced themselves to mouthpieces for entrenched interests. The ability to stand on a street and criticize your leader is not the only sign of democracy, the ability to effect change and have a government responsive to peoples needs is. Studies have shown and people can see how the US political establishment are far more responsive to special interests and the rich than the general public. So what is democracy? Perhaps things are not simplistic or black and white, and continuing to affect a moral high ground inspite of alarming deterioration betrays not only a lack of fundamental concern for any articulated values but also its abuse as a mere political tool to beat others with without any context of global history and world affairs.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]

dis-sys 9y ago

> America's respect for individual liberty and the rule of law has eroded over the years, but it is still considerably stronger than what's found in China. individual liberty such as those mass shootings protected by the constitution? if you do believe there is real democracy in your country, maybe you can talk to your democratically elected local representatives and make some _real changes_ in that aspect first? talk is cheap, show me your democracy.

freeone3000 9y ago
A lot of people believe that private ownership of guns is an important individual right - a majority in some areas. This is democracy, even when it produces outcomes I disagree with.
- dis-sys 9y ago
  yet the same people are jumping up and down lecturing Chinese about how bad is the CCP. I thought it is up to them to judge that.

darepublic 9y ago

Pointing out that America is just as bad would be a fair point (not whataboutism) because YC does so much business in America. So criticizing YC for dealing with a government just like America but is not America is not an invalid point. However I agree with others that China's tyranny is on a different level.