10 ms·

Java SE 8 business users must buy a licence from Jan 2019 to receive updates

148 points by stedaniels 9y ago

hyperpallium 9y ago
Surprise! But this is great, giving a boost to openJDK (and maybe even Google's Android Java), as Oracle did for Hudson->Jenkins. By the time they try to claw it back, it will be too late.
- Arkanosis 9y ago
  Isn't Oracle the main sponsor of OpenJDK? They sure want you to move to an up to date (ie. 9 or 10) version of it.
  - Piskvorrr 9y ago
    They are - but I don't think they can somehow unrelease OpenJDK 8.
    - PedroBatista 9y ago
      Well, they did it with Open Solaris. You never know with these people..
      - pron 9y ago
        Was Open Solaris also used by close to 10 million developers?
        nameless912 9y ago
        Never underestimate Oracle's power to shoot themselves in their own feet.
Soarez 9y ago
I wonder if this means a boost of marketshare for Zulu. https://www.azul.com/downloads/zulu/ https://www.azul.com/downloads/zulu/
- LudoA 9y ago
  Yep, same for Red Hat's support for OpenJDK (which goes up to October 2020 for OpenJDK 8: https://access.redhat.com/articles/1299013 https://access.redhat.com/articles/1299013).
- _Codemonkeyism 9y ago
  Did you find anything on their support policy for sec updates for older versions?
mythz 9y ago
If you lie down with Oracle you're going to get fleeced.
- wging 9y ago
  This is possibly ok, actually. Java 9 and 10 have been released; Java 11, the next long-term-support release, has a release date of September. So this applies if you're on a 5-year-old version of Java and choose to run Java 8 rather than update to 11. http://openjdk.java.net/projects/jdk/11/ http://openjdk.java.net/projects/jdk/11/
  - ThePadawan 9y ago
    YMMV but I would be hard pressed to name any company I produced Java-based software for which even ran Java 9.
  - LudoA 9y ago
    Java 9 was released end of September 2017... That's less than 1.5 years to migrate all your apps (possible many hundreds) from Java 8 to Java 9. Way too short. In fact, Java 9 is already out of support (since last month). The next viable Java version after Java 8 is Java 11, which is an LTS version. Java 11 will come out around September this year. So in reality, this means organizations have a couple months to migrate everything from Java 8 to Java 11. Laughable.
    - baud147258 9y ago
      In addition to this, Java 9 introduces changes that make the migration non-trivial
    - dwaite 9y ago
      This is all accurate. However, it is not like Java 9 was being developed in private, and I doubt many shops even started to look at support once it was RTM. Java shops are used to being able to stay on old releases for near-forever, but they need to adapt to Oracle's business model being to charge for Java support. It was Sun's monetization model for Java too; they just sucked at it.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
NullPrefix 9y ago
Title is baiting. Want updates for legacy? Pay up. --------- Edit: Sorry, I might be a bit wrong. I thought non-business users wouldn't get free updates too.
- geezerjay 9y ago
  Nail in the head. I had to double-check how old Java 8 was, and in the process I've learned that it was initially released way back in 2014 and currently Oracle is already working on releasing Java 11.
  - LudoA 9y ago
    The release date of Java 8 doesn't matter. Nor does the fact that they're working on Java 11 (which is only because Oracle just started doing fast releases). What matters is when Java 9 became available. I.e. how much have they had to migrate from Java 8 to its first successor: Java 9. Java 9 is available since summer 2017. So that means companies will get only 1.5 years to migrate all of their Java 8 apps to the next available version. Which is very, very little for large organizations who may have many hundreds of apps running on Java 8.
    - pdpi 9y ago
      For the Java 5 -> Java 6 transition, Java 5 was publicly updated for 3 years after Java 6 was released. 6->7 saw 6 supported for 21 more months, 7->8 was a rather short 13 months. For 8->9, this announcement means it'll be 17 months of support after Java 8 is no longer current, which is in perfectly line with what they've been doing.
      - LudoA 9y ago
        Except Java 9 is already no longer supported. The next viable Java version after Java 8 is Java 11, which is an LTS version. Java 11 will come out around September this year. So in reality, this means organizations have a couple months to migrate everything from Java 8 to Java 11. Laughable.
croo 9y ago
Oracle announcment link: https://java.com/en/download/release_notice.jsp https://java.com/en/download/release_notice.jsp Does this foreshadow that Oracle Java SE 11 will be licensed or is this just a fee to force users to move on to the latest version?
- Ygg2 9y ago
  This is Oracle. I am sure they will do their best to fleece their customers. Then sue customers for skin and cartilage.
- mcroft 9y ago
  In summary: * The latest version of Java will always be free to download. * There will be new versions every 6 months with zero overlap. * LTS versions are available every 3 years, but only for paying customers
the_grue 9y ago
I'm confused. Is this a cost-cutting move intended to push the industry towards Java 9? If a business is able to switch to Java SE 9, will they still be eligible to receive free upgrades?
- jerven 9y ago
  You will need to upgrade to JDK11. Or find another JDK 8 support option e.g. RedHat or Azul
- the_grue 9y ago
  Okay, replying to myself after a couple of quick Google searches. The situation is quite complex. A big part of the industry seems to be stuck at Java 8 right now due to several reasons. One of them is the momentum Java 8 gained when it was released in 2017, 8 years after Java 7. It was a strong release, bringing much-awaited features to the aging Java ecosystem. Subsequent released didn't come anywhere close to that. Another big reason is the uncertainty of the upgrade path. Java 9 was released comparatively short time afterwards, and it is set to expire... last month. [1] Unsurprisingly, many customers chose to stay with a stabilized, thoroughly tested version of Java 8, rather than switch to a bleeding edge (in Java terms, at least), untested Java 9 with a very short time fuse on it. Finally, Java 10, which has been released recently, is also due to expire very shortly - in fall 2018. So overall this looks like a very aggressive monetization move on Oracle's part, intended to extract $$ from customers who value stability of their platform. It goes completely against the long-established tradition of stability in the Java ecosystem, which is one of the reasons many of the customers chose it, in the first place. I expect a massive migration towards OpenJDK and a backlash in the community, which will ultimately push Oracle aside. [1] http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/eol-135779.html http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/eol-135779.html
  - pjmlp 9y ago
    Every time people suggest OpenJDK to move away from Oracle, they should learn who actually writes OpenJDK code. The roadmap is quite clear, Java 11 planned to be released in September, will be the next LTS release. Business will have one year to migrate to 10, used the 11 preview on their test systems, and eventually migrate to the next LTS release. I applaud Oracle here, business don't do anything unless pushed to do so. I still have to occasionally program against Java 1.4, just because there is this forgotten server no one wants to touch.
vbezhenar 9y ago
What does it mean: "business users of Java SE 8 will no longer receive public updates for the software after January 2019", "Those using Java for individual, personal use, will continue to have the same access to Oracle Java SE 8 updates as they do today through at least the end of 2020.". What's the difference between business and personal use? I'm downloading JDK from oracle website and using it for business use. I couldn't care less what Oracle thinks about it. Will it work?
- NullPrefix 9y ago
  >couldn't care less what Oracle thinks Let's just leave all this for Oracle's lawyers to decide. I'm sure it will turn out just fine :)
- mcroft 9y ago
  I guess what you're really asking there is "is Oracle litigious?"
  - vbezhenar 9y ago
    I just wonder if it's about some business JDK (different from personal JDK) or I'm just forbidden to download updates from Oracle website after January 2019 for business use? Can I stay on latest available JDK 8 update then? It just sounds strange that I must restrict myself from upgrading. If someone wants to protect its software from unauthorized use, they use electronic licenses, expiration, etc.
    - mcroft 9y ago
      Traditionally, Oracle make their software available to anyone with a development license, meaning you are not allowed to use it in production for commercial use. This isn't so unusual, Red Hat's JBoss can be freely downloaded, but you need to click accept on a license agreement. What this means is that there is nothing to stop you from using the software for commercial purposes, but you need to be prepared for a visit from Oracle's lawyers.
merb 9y ago
well basically they force people to openjdk.
- noJavain2019 9y ago
  ... which they most probably will shut down next year. Remember Open Solaris? ...
  - gargravarr 9y ago
    OpenSolaris does still exist, it was forked and continues under the OpenIndiana name now. I think Oracle's major claim over the project was the use of the 'Solaris' name for copyright reasons. I hope that three letters would be a lot harder to assert copyright over, but I'm not holding my breath.
    - mbreese 9y ago
      Trademark... trademark reasons.
      - gargravarr 9y ago
        You're right, I get those mixed up.
- dboreham 9y ago
  Who is fixing security bugs in old openjdk releases?
  - anthk_ 9y ago
    OpenBSD uses OpenJDK8 in -stable.
    - peoplewindow 9y ago
      And OpenBSD has large numbers of skilled VM engineers sitting around doing nothing? OpenJDK is Oracle. They're the same people. If Oracle stop releasing bug fixes to the open source project OpenBSD isn't going to step up and suddenly start doing backports all themselves.
neves 9y ago
Confused here. When I compile a Java program, I can specify the target platform. Even if I'm running Java 9, I can target Java 6. It it just the case of change the runtime binary and continue using the version the code was developed for? Probably as a matter of regression tests, it is somewhat more risky than just using a security fix, but it would still be very rare.
phkahler 9y ago
What does this mean for Eclipse users? We do a lot of micro controller projects and every SoC comes with an IDE which is often Eclipse with extensions. These IDEs are often free. How will this affect that situation?
- j605 9y ago
  You can always use openjdk right?
- Piskvorrr 9y ago
  Eclipse seems to be the "user" w/r/t Oracle, if I'm reading this right.
noJavain2019 9y ago
This means only one thing: run away from Java now, before it is too late and you are stuck with paying ransom and extortion fees to some big greedy corpOration :-)
DoctorOetker 9y ago
In most instances, the Java-based applications you run are licensed separately by a company other than Oracle (for example, games you play on your PC are likely developed by a gaming company)," the firm announced in a statement. "These applications may run on the Java platform and be dependent on Oracle Java SE 8 updates beyond 2020. Accordingly, Oracle recommends you contact your application provider for details on how they plan to continue to provide application support to you." To me this reads like they will intentionally "update" the user's Oracle JRE such that it will fail to run applications by non-paying "business developers". If true I suspect the end-user runtimes will check jar's to see if it is signed by the "business developer", and if there is a certificate signed by Oracle confirming the "business developer". The developer can not prevent the user from upgrading their Oracle JRE's. This should have no bearing on users using OpenJDK's JRE, but it may have bearing on FOSS developers if a substantial fragment of their users are running Oracle's JRE, depending on the interpretation of "business developer".
- kalleboo 9y ago
  Sounds more to me like if you're a business using software that only works on Java SE 8, and tomorrow Java SE 8 breaks in Windows 10.next or some huge security hole is found, your choices are "pay Oracle" or "convince the software vendor to upgrade the software to Java SE 9+". It's up in the air if Oracle prefers the former (=they make money) or the latter (=they can drop support for SE 8 and save money)
  - DoctorOetker 9y ago
    but how would that apply to their explicit example of a Java SE 8 computer game ? and the next paragraph is a thinly veiled threat to developers of such a hypothetical game: developers, pay us or we will direct your players' complaints to you (or have fun explaining to all your players on different platforms to either install openjdk or fully remove and reinstall some old copy of Java 8 SE from some mirror somewhere, and explaining them they must from now on ignore the update notifications). I imagine the Oracle JRE will show an error message dialog to the player, containing a URL to this or similar page.
0xFFC 9y ago
I don’t understand the backlash for this. It seems people do react without investigating the issue when they hear Oracle name. What it is really happening is really simple. And I think acceptable approach. Think about how redhat company controls Redhat (distribution) and Fedora. Fedora is free. It will get updated. Redhat (company) is the real power behind Fedora. But it does not have any enterprise support. You want enterprise support, buy Redhat subscription. And it is not like Fedora does not get security update. It gets and it is very effective. The same relation is going to happen with Oracle Java SE and OpenJDK. Openjdk is free. It will get updated. Oracle is the real power behind Openjdk. But it does not have any enterprise support. You want enterprise support, buy OracleJdk subscription. And it is not like Openjdk does not get security update. It gets and it is very effective.
- jcadam 9y ago
  I hope you're right, that the current situation for OpenJDK users remains basically unchanged. I pretty much stick to OpenJDK these days, anyway. There used to be a lot of compatibility issues between the 'official' Sun/Oracle JDK and OpenJDK, but those seem to have been ironed out as of JDK8.
- the_grue 9y ago
  This is not about enterprise support. It's about security fixes and bugfixes. If you're a business, you will have to pay for these fixes or roll with their 6-months release cycle. Selling security fixes is quite unprecedented for a project of this scale. Furthermore, it emphasizes Oracle's power over its users, and let's not forget that these users are sometimes as big or bigger as Oracle itself (IBM and Google to name a couple). So they could potentially organize and take over stewardship of the project to ensure that no drastic changes of this sort will ever happen again. I don't see any reason not to. As far as I can tell, the reason Oracle is the sole maintainer of Java is mainly historical (Sun legacy) and because no one felt an urge to do anything about it before. I'm sure it's going to change now.
  - 0xFFC 9y ago
    >If you're a business, you will have to pay for these fixes or roll with their 6-months release cycle. Or you can use Openjdk.
jhawk28 9y ago
The only thing that is weird here is that Oracle was able to get a release of Java out in a year. Once the second public release is made, you needed a business license in order to get security updates for older products. Businesses are the only ones slow to update. Why is it immoral for Oracle to charge a business for their maintenance services?
blincoln 9y ago
I noticed this as well yesterday when I needed to install a JDK on my work MacBook. I have a slightly biased perspective because I do pen testing, reverse-engineering, and other "hacking" work, but this is going to cause me a lot of grief because Java 9 and 10 started making it clear that Oracle wants to restrict use of reflection significantly - maybe remove it altogether. Clearly there are ways for me to get around it, but a LOT of the tools I use are going to be broken by default. Googling "All illegal access operations will be denied in a future release" indicates it's not just my kind of software, either.
- peoplewindow 9y ago
  There is no sign reflection is going to be removed. That wouldn't be possible anyway. The "denial" of use of internal APIs can be disabled with a command line switch. The point of the new warnings is to try and start slowly weaning the Java ecosystem off the use of internal APIs, something to which it has become quite accustomed.
fredrik-j 9y ago
At work we're migrating to openjdk obviously. But I'm curious what is the cost of a commercial Oracle JDK license? Is the price per server, per cpu/core, per users? Anyone got a ballpark figure?
- papasound 8y ago
  At least Azul charges $12k per year for basic package (0-25 servers). Oracle won't be any cheaper or few times more. That will be no-go for most mid-size and small projects.

148 points by stedaniels 9y ago

Surprise! But this is great, giving a boost to openJDK (and maybe even Google's Android Java), as Oracle did for Hudson->Jenkins. By the time they try to claw it back, it will be too late.

Arkanosis 9y ago
Isn't Oracle the main sponsor of OpenJDK? They sure want you to move to an up to date (ie. 9 or 10) version of it.
- Piskvorrr 9y ago
  They are - but I don't think they can somehow unrelease OpenJDK 8.
  - PedroBatista 9y ago
    Well, they did it with Open Solaris. You never know with these people..
    - pron 9y ago
      Was Open Solaris also used by close to 10 million developers?
      - nameless912 9y ago
        Never underestimate Oracle's power to shoot themselves in their own feet.

Soarez 9y ago

I wonder if this means a boost of marketshare for Zulu. https://www.azul.com/downloads/zulu/ https://www.azul.com/downloads/zulu/

LudoA 9y ago
Yep, same for Red Hat's support for OpenJDK (which goes up to October 2020 for OpenJDK 8: https://access.redhat.com/articles/1299013 https://access.redhat.com/articles/1299013).
_Codemonkeyism 9y ago
Did you find anything on their support policy for sec updates for older versions?

mythz 9y ago

If you lie down with Oracle you're going to get fleeced.

wging 9y ago
This is possibly ok, actually. Java 9 and 10 have been released; Java 11, the next long-term-support release, has a release date of September. So this applies if you're on a 5-year-old version of Java and choose to run Java 8 rather than update to 11. http://openjdk.java.net/projects/jdk/11/ http://openjdk.java.net/projects/jdk/11/
- ThePadawan 9y ago
  YMMV but I would be hard pressed to name any company I produced Java-based software for which even ran Java 9.
- LudoA 9y ago
  Java 9 was released end of September 2017... That's less than 1.5 years to migrate all your apps (possible many hundreds) from Java 8 to Java 9. Way too short. In fact, Java 9 is already out of support (since last month). The next viable Java version after Java 8 is Java 11, which is an LTS version. Java 11 will come out around September this year. So in reality, this means organizations have a couple months to migrate everything from Java 8 to Java 11. Laughable.
  - baud147258 9y ago
    In addition to this, Java 9 introduces changes that make the migration non-trivial
  - dwaite 9y ago
    This is all accurate. However, it is not like Java 9 was being developed in private, and I doubt many shops even started to look at support once it was RTM. Java shops are used to being able to stay on old releases for near-forever, but they need to adapt to Oracle's business model being to charge for Java support. It was Sun's monetization model for Java too; they just sucked at it.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

NullPrefix 9y ago

Title is baiting. Want updates for legacy? Pay up. --------- Edit: Sorry, I might be a bit wrong. I thought non-business users wouldn't get free updates too.

geezerjay 9y ago
Nail in the head. I had to double-check how old Java 8 was, and in the process I've learned that it was initially released way back in 2014 and currently Oracle is already working on releasing Java 11.
- LudoA 9y ago
  The release date of Java 8 doesn't matter. Nor does the fact that they're working on Java 11 (which is only because Oracle just started doing fast releases). What matters is when Java 9 became available. I.e. how much have they had to migrate from Java 8 to its first successor: Java 9. Java 9 is available since summer 2017. So that means companies will get only 1.5 years to migrate all of their Java 8 apps to the next available version. Which is very, very little for large organizations who may have many hundreds of apps running on Java 8.
  - pdpi 9y ago
    For the Java 5 -> Java 6 transition, Java 5 was publicly updated for 3 years after Java 6 was released. 6->7 saw 6 supported for 21 more months, 7->8 was a rather short 13 months. For 8->9, this announcement means it'll be 17 months of support after Java 8 is no longer current, which is in perfectly line with what they've been doing.
    - LudoA 9y ago
      Except Java 9 is already no longer supported. The next viable Java version after Java 8 is Java 11, which is an LTS version. Java 11 will come out around September this year. So in reality, this means organizations have a couple months to migrate everything from Java 8 to Java 11. Laughable.

croo 9y ago

Oracle announcment link: https://java.com/en/download/release_notice.jsp https://java.com/en/download/release_notice.jsp Does this foreshadow that Oracle Java SE 11 will be licensed or is this just a fee to force users to move on to the latest version?

Ygg2 9y ago
This is Oracle. I am sure they will do their best to fleece their customers. Then sue customers for skin and cartilage.
mcroft 9y ago
In summary: * The latest version of Java will always be free to download. * There will be new versions every 6 months with zero overlap. * LTS versions are available every 3 years, but only for paying customers

the_grue 9y ago

I'm confused. Is this a cost-cutting move intended to push the industry towards Java 9? If a business is able to switch to Java SE 9, will they still be eligible to receive free upgrades?

jerven 9y ago
You will need to upgrade to JDK11. Or find another JDK 8 support option e.g. RedHat or Azul
the_grue 9y ago
Okay, replying to myself after a couple of quick Google searches. The situation is quite complex. A big part of the industry seems to be stuck at Java 8 right now due to several reasons. One of them is the momentum Java 8 gained when it was released in 2017, 8 years after Java 7. It was a strong release, bringing much-awaited features to the aging Java ecosystem. Subsequent released didn't come anywhere close to that. Another big reason is the uncertainty of the upgrade path. Java 9 was released comparatively short time afterwards, and it is set to expire... last month. [1] Unsurprisingly, many customers chose to stay with a stabilized, thoroughly tested version of Java 8, rather than switch to a bleeding edge (in Java terms, at least), untested Java 9 with a very short time fuse on it. Finally, Java 10, which has been released recently, is also due to expire very shortly - in fall 2018. So overall this looks like a very aggressive monetization move on Oracle's part, intended to extract $$ from customers who value stability of their platform. It goes completely against the long-established tradition of stability in the Java ecosystem, which is one of the reasons many of the customers chose it, in the first place. I expect a massive migration towards OpenJDK and a backlash in the community, which will ultimately push Oracle aside. [1] http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/eol-135779.html http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/eol-135779.html
- pjmlp 9y ago
  Every time people suggest OpenJDK to move away from Oracle, they should learn who actually writes OpenJDK code. The roadmap is quite clear, Java 11 planned to be released in September, will be the next LTS release. Business will have one year to migrate to 10, used the 11 preview on their test systems, and eventually migrate to the next LTS release. I applaud Oracle here, business don't do anything unless pushed to do so. I still have to occasionally program against Java 1.4, just because there is this forgotten server no one wants to touch.

vbezhenar 9y ago

What does it mean: "business users of Java SE 8 will no longer receive public updates for the software after January 2019", "Those using Java for individual, personal use, will continue to have the same access to Oracle Java SE 8 updates as they do today through at least the end of 2020.". What's the difference between business and personal use? I'm downloading JDK from oracle website and using it for business use. I couldn't care less what Oracle thinks about it. Will it work?

NullPrefix 9y ago
>couldn't care less what Oracle thinks Let's just leave all this for Oracle's lawyers to decide. I'm sure it will turn out just fine :)
mcroft 9y ago
I guess what you're really asking there is "is Oracle litigious?"
- vbezhenar 9y ago
  I just wonder if it's about some business JDK (different from personal JDK) or I'm just forbidden to download updates from Oracle website after January 2019 for business use? Can I stay on latest available JDK 8 update then? It just sounds strange that I must restrict myself from upgrading. If someone wants to protect its software from unauthorized use, they use electronic licenses, expiration, etc.
  - mcroft 9y ago
    Traditionally, Oracle make their software available to anyone with a development license, meaning you are not allowed to use it in production for commercial use. This isn't so unusual, Red Hat's JBoss can be freely downloaded, but you need to click accept on a license agreement. What this means is that there is nothing to stop you from using the software for commercial purposes, but you need to be prepared for a visit from Oracle's lawyers.

merb 9y ago

well basically they force people to openjdk.

noJavain2019 9y ago
... which they most probably will shut down next year. Remember Open Solaris? ...
- gargravarr 9y ago
  OpenSolaris does still exist, it was forked and continues under the OpenIndiana name now. I think Oracle's major claim over the project was the use of the 'Solaris' name for copyright reasons. I hope that three letters would be a lot harder to assert copyright over, but I'm not holding my breath.
  - mbreese 9y ago
    Trademark... trademark reasons.
    - gargravarr 9y ago
      You're right, I get those mixed up.
dboreham 9y ago
Who is fixing security bugs in old openjdk releases?
- anthk_ 9y ago
  OpenBSD uses OpenJDK8 in -stable.
  - peoplewindow 9y ago
    And OpenBSD has large numbers of skilled VM engineers sitting around doing nothing? OpenJDK is Oracle. They're the same people. If Oracle stop releasing bug fixes to the open source project OpenBSD isn't going to step up and suddenly start doing backports all themselves.

neves 9y ago

Confused here. When I compile a Java program, I can specify the target platform. Even if I'm running Java 9, I can target Java 6. It it just the case of change the runtime binary and continue using the version the code was developed for? Probably as a matter of regression tests, it is somewhat more risky than just using a security fix, but it would still be very rare.

phkahler 9y ago

What does this mean for Eclipse users? We do a lot of micro controller projects and every SoC comes with an IDE which is often Eclipse with extensions. These IDEs are often free. How will this affect that situation?

j605 9y ago
You can always use openjdk right?
Piskvorrr 9y ago
Eclipse seems to be the "user" w/r/t Oracle, if I'm reading this right.

noJavain2019 9y ago

This means only one thing: run away from Java now, before it is too late and you are stuck with paying ransom and extortion fees to some big greedy corpOration :-)

DoctorOetker 9y ago

In most instances, the Java-based applications you run are licensed separately by a company other than Oracle (for example, games you play on your PC are likely developed by a gaming company)," the firm announced in a statement. "These applications may run on the Java platform and be dependent on Oracle Java SE 8 updates beyond 2020. Accordingly, Oracle recommends you contact your application provider for details on how they plan to continue to provide application support to you." To me this reads like they will intentionally "update" the user's Oracle JRE such that it will fail to run applications by non-paying "business developers". If true I suspect the end-user runtimes will check jar's to see if it is signed by the "business developer", and if there is a certificate signed by Oracle confirming the "business developer". The developer can not prevent the user from upgrading their Oracle JRE's. This should have no bearing on users using OpenJDK's JRE, but it may have bearing on FOSS developers if a substantial fragment of their users are running Oracle's JRE, depending on the interpretation of "business developer".

kalleboo 9y ago
Sounds more to me like if you're a business using software that only works on Java SE 8, and tomorrow Java SE 8 breaks in Windows 10.next or some huge security hole is found, your choices are "pay Oracle" or "convince the software vendor to upgrade the software to Java SE 9+". It's up in the air if Oracle prefers the former (=they make money) or the latter (=they can drop support for SE 8 and save money)
- DoctorOetker 9y ago
  but how would that apply to their explicit example of a Java SE 8 computer game ? and the next paragraph is a thinly veiled threat to developers of such a hypothetical game: developers, pay us or we will direct your players' complaints to you (or have fun explaining to all your players on different platforms to either install openjdk or fully remove and reinstall some old copy of Java 8 SE from some mirror somewhere, and explaining them they must from now on ignore the update notifications). I imagine the Oracle JRE will show an error message dialog to the player, containing a URL to this or similar page.

0xFFC 9y ago

I don’t understand the backlash for this. It seems people do react without investigating the issue when they hear Oracle name. What it is really happening is really simple. And I think acceptable approach. Think about how redhat company controls Redhat (distribution) and Fedora. Fedora is free. It will get updated. Redhat (company) is the real power behind Fedora. But it does not have any enterprise support. You want enterprise support, buy Redhat subscription. And it is not like Fedora does not get security update. It gets and it is very effective. The same relation is going to happen with Oracle Java SE and OpenJDK. Openjdk is free. It will get updated. Oracle is the real power behind Openjdk. But it does not have any enterprise support. You want enterprise support, buy OracleJdk subscription. And it is not like Openjdk does not get security update. It gets and it is very effective.

jcadam 9y ago
I hope you're right, that the current situation for OpenJDK users remains basically unchanged. I pretty much stick to OpenJDK these days, anyway. There used to be a lot of compatibility issues between the 'official' Sun/Oracle JDK and OpenJDK, but those seem to have been ironed out as of JDK8.
the_grue 9y ago
This is not about enterprise support. It's about security fixes and bugfixes. If you're a business, you will have to pay for these fixes or roll with their 6-months release cycle. Selling security fixes is quite unprecedented for a project of this scale. Furthermore, it emphasizes Oracle's power over its users, and let's not forget that these users are sometimes as big or bigger as Oracle itself (IBM and Google to name a couple). So they could potentially organize and take over stewardship of the project to ensure that no drastic changes of this sort will ever happen again. I don't see any reason not to. As far as I can tell, the reason Oracle is the sole maintainer of Java is mainly historical (Sun legacy) and because no one felt an urge to do anything about it before. I'm sure it's going to change now.
- 0xFFC 9y ago
  >If you're a business, you will have to pay for these fixes or roll with their 6-months release cycle. Or you can use Openjdk.

jhawk28 9y ago

The only thing that is weird here is that Oracle was able to get a release of Java out in a year. Once the second public release is made, you needed a business license in order to get security updates for older products. Businesses are the only ones slow to update. Why is it immoral for Oracle to charge a business for their maintenance services?

blincoln 9y ago

I noticed this as well yesterday when I needed to install a JDK on my work MacBook. I have a slightly biased perspective because I do pen testing, reverse-engineering, and other "hacking" work, but this is going to cause me a lot of grief because Java 9 and 10 started making it clear that Oracle wants to restrict use of reflection significantly - maybe remove it altogether. Clearly there are ways for me to get around it, but a LOT of the tools I use are going to be broken by default. Googling "All illegal access operations will be denied in a future release" indicates it's not just my kind of software, either.

peoplewindow 9y ago
There is no sign reflection is going to be removed. That wouldn't be possible anyway. The "denial" of use of internal APIs can be disabled with a command line switch. The point of the new warnings is to try and start slowly weaning the Java ecosystem off the use of internal APIs, something to which it has become quite accustomed.

fredrik-j 9y ago

At work we're migrating to openjdk obviously. But I'm curious what is the cost of a commercial Oracle JDK license? Is the price per server, per cpu/core, per users? Anyone got a ballpark figure?

papasound 8y ago
At least Azul charges $12k per year for basic package (0-25 servers). Oracle won't be any cheaper or few times more. That will be no-go for most mid-size and small projects.