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Instagram launches “Data Download” tool to let you leave

187 points by artsandsci 9y ago

mtgx 9y ago
Thanks to GDPR.
- ceejayoz 9y ago
  It's remarkable how many "we're being transparent! out of the sheer goodness of our hearts!" emails I've gotten lately. I also think it's hilarious that Techcrunch is acting like it's their doing that this is coming.
downandout 9y ago
Instagram has become the dominant image sharing social network with over 800 million users. It shouldn’t need to lock up users’ data in order to keep them around. That's fine for Instagram, but what about startups that want to compete with them? They'll find that users will build up collections of photos and videos (perhaps using proprietary filters that make a given application popular for a while) at their expense, and then instantly abandon their platforms. GDPR is great, or at least not a negative for large platforms, but a disaster for startups.
- fwdpropaganda 9y ago
  > Instagram has become the dominant image sharing social network with over 800 million users. It shouldn’t need to lock up users’ data in order to keep them around. > That's fine for Instagram, but what about startups that want to compete and find that users can now build up collections of photos and videos (perhaps using proprietary filters that make a given application popular for a while) at their expense and then instantly abandon their platforms? GDPR is great, or at least not a negative for large companies, but a disaster for startups. So what are you saying? That startups should have the right to lock up their users just so they can have a business? No, sorry. If your business depends on "locking up users", maybe you shouldn't have a business.
  - downandout 9y ago
    So what are you saying? That startups should have the right to lock up their users just so they can have a business? I'm saying that startups should have the right to engineer their platforms in the way that they see fit. Because of GDPR, no startup (at least those that accept EU traffic) will ever achieve the social lock-in that Instagram has. Instagram built their user base in an era where it was difficult for average users to get their pictures out. Did your startup come up with a new set of filters that make photos go really viral? Awesome! Users will just make it in your app and then export it to Instagram, where people will actually see it. You'll go bankrupt...but Instagram usage will increase as a result of your efforts.
    - fwdpropaganda 9y ago
      > Startups should have the right to engineer their platforms in the way that they see fit. Because of GDPR, no startup (at least those that accept EU traffic) will ever achieve the social lock-in that Instagram has. Instagram built their user base in an era where it was difficult for average users to get their pictures out. Did your startup come up with a new set of filters that make photos go really viral? Awesome! Users will just make it in your app and then export it to Instagram, where people will actually see it. You'll go bankrupt...but Instagram usage will increase as a result of your efforts. Do you realize how backwards that is? All throughout history it's been the case that circumstances change. Maybe what was a viable business to start before, isn't now. Well, those that took the chance when this was allowed are banking on it, but now no one else can. Your argument is: person X exploited bad thing Z before, so we must continue to allow back thing Z just in case person Y also wants to exploit it. No, that's completely backwards. Some people got rich off slavery, so we shouldn't make slavery illegal because my startup wants to take advantage of it too. /s
      - downandout 9y ago
        You're comparing the inability to easily move pictures from one service to another to slavery? That's quite the leap, though not unexpected on HN these days. Anyway, I hope you enjoy Instagram if you are in a GDPR-affected country, because no competitor will ever emerge as a result of this law. They'll have all of your data, and you'll have to agree to it being analyzed in whatever way they choose because there is not and never will be another service to go to (which renders this entire point of this law moot).
- ummonk 9y ago
  What about them? If they provide a platform that is good for users, users will continue to use them. If not, the users will take their data elsewhere. That's the way it should work.
- ceejayoz 9y ago
  You're saying "what about startups that want to compete" while arguing it's not fair to make them have to actually compete. I don't follow.
- frgtpsswrdlame 9y ago
  I think we should just outright reject the notion that user lockin is something startups (or any company) has a right to. I don't think it's really good for consumers when companies become 'platforms' that you can't leave. Well functioning markets allow users to easily switch between services. Also: >startups that want to compete and find that users can now build up collections of photos and videos at their expense If users using your service is 'at your expense' and not 'for your profit' then that seems to be mostly a problem with the company's business model.
- make3 9y ago
  users shouldn't stay just because it's inconvenient to leave, they should stay because the product is good
- maxerickson 9y ago
  So you are saying they will have to have some sort of business model from the get go?
bhnmmhmd 9y ago
It's unfortunate how Instagram, as a very popular social network, has a very slow speed of improvement. Too many features missing, UI still has issues (not to mention the lack of a dark theme), the UX is just "weird" and the setting menu reminds me of Winphone settings: too cluttered, many useless buttons, and no icons! On top of that, many times images won't just load. And Videos play automatically, consuming much internet traffic.
- JumpCrisscross 9y ago
  > lack of a dark theme Why should this be a priority for anyone?
  - bhnmmhmd 9y ago
    The same reason I use dark theme on HN as well.
  - opencl 9y ago
    Dark themes can provide significant energy efficiency improvements on OLED screens which are becoming increasingly popular. Though IG would probably benefit significantly less than text-heavy apps because the screen is mostly taken up by photos which aren't impacted by dark themes. https://www.anandtech.com/show/9394/analysing-amoled-power-efficiency https://www.anandtech.com/show/9394/analysing-amoled-power-e... This article is a bit old, but on the Galaxy S6 at full brightness displaying an image with 40% average picture level saves half a watt compared to full white.
- qmalzp 9y ago
  I completely disagree. One of the main reasons I prefer Instagram is precisely that it's not packed to the brim with features I don't use.
fredley 9y ago
If you do want to delete your account, and you're in the EU, wait until after the 25th of May. Once the GDPR is in force, your rights concerning your data when you delete your account are much, much stronger.
- nsbq71 9y ago
  Okay, is this really true or not? Because I marked my FB acc for deletion a few days ago and reading this so much is making me think of cancelling and waiting until now, but it really doesn't make much sense
  - idoh 9y ago
    Sounds true to me. May 25 is the start date, and the penalties for noncompliance are insane.
    - nsbq71 9y ago
      I thought it worked retroactively too.
      - idoh 9y ago
        It is possible that there is some other rule in place for that, but the GDPR isn't retroactive as far as I remember.
        lixtra 9y ago
        GDPR is already active. It's just the punishment section that is not yet active. On May 25th, if a company has (still) data about you, they have to comply or (now) face the consequences.
        idoh 9y ago
        That's a really pedantic interpretation :) It has been adopted and published, but enforcement starts May 25. Because nothing can actually happen until May 25, I think that is a more reasonable date to say that it is "active".
numerlo 9y ago
>Two weeks ago TechCrunch called on Instagram to build an equivalent to Facebook’s “Download Your Information feature so if you wanted to leave for another photo sharing network, you could. The next day it announced this tool would be coming and now TechCrunch has spotted it rolling out to users. So we've moved from companies trying to make compliance to GDPR look like they are doing us a favor out of the goodness of their hearts to now tech sites trying to take the credit for that too. Who will be the next I wonder.
- deft 9y ago
  "We always had that feature!"
- will_brown 9y ago
  It’s a lot like the NRA...they fight gun regulation tooth and nail, then when the writing is on the wall for a given issue, they take credit for spearheading the initiative. Perfect example: NRA fighting regulations on gun sales by mail order. JFK is assasinated using a rifle ordered by mail right out of a magazine owned/published by the NRA. Gun purchase by mail order is outlawed...NRA proceeds to take credit for championing sensible gun regulations.
- SmellyGeekBoy 9y ago
  The tabloid newspapers in the UK do this sort of thing all the time. I'm not sure what that says about TechCrunch, if anything.
- antihero 9y ago
  A company using it's compliance to regulation as a PR exercise? Who'd have thought it! Phone companies in the UK at least do this boasting EU free roaming as a "feature" they're so nice to provide, except that it's UK law. Three are the only network that did this voluntarily (and their Feel at home thing is also many places outside the EU which is nice)
  - NicoJuicy 9y ago
    It's a EU law, not an UK one
raldi 9y ago
In the past, when a government sent an Internet company a National Security Letter (or equivalent), it was a lot of work for them to dig up every trace of content that user has ever produced or had recorded about them -- think, for example, of a Google account, which might have GMail archives, chat logs, search history, YouTube videos, Google+ posts, Google Voice records, Chrome backups.... It used to be really hard to gather all that information and package it up in a nice little bundle. It used to be hard for a company to get their software engineers to quietly implement such functionality across all products without getting internal angst and bad press leaks. But now, companies can just tell their software engineers that they're writing user-friendly data-portability features. Across all product lines, they'll happily code away, completely oblivious to the fact that their code is also going to be used for this other purpose.
- degenerate 9y ago
  Good point. If I was working with sensitive data, I would definitely question a decision on allowing data to be exported somewhere. I'd probably get confirmation from my manager in how that data was allowed to be accessed/requested. But if I was coding an export feature for users to download all their data in one click, I wouldn't think twice about it. I would assume it was used for that purpose. That's scary.
- foolfoolz 9y ago
  i think this is a false statement. i have worked for companies with lots of user data. the tools to download or retain all user data for legal reasons existed although they were not customer facing. one particular company i worked for had a tool to download all files to disk and partition into ~700mb chunks, helping you achieve the end goal of burning to files to CD rom. this was used frequently during subpoenas. i see the ability to download and delete your account as a good improvement
  - raldi 9y ago
    What's the part of my comment that you think is false?
seccess 9y ago
I like to plug Google takeout[0] in these convos, which also lets you export data if you want to leave. Many people don't seem to know about it, but it is quite mature and has been around for many years. EDIT: To expand on this a bit more, I do wish there was more industry standardization when it comes to data import/export. Is there any standardized format for chat history, for example? [0] https://takeout.google.com https://takeout.google.com
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
raiyu 9y ago
I think people are confusing lock in with lack of choice. Any network platform is creating lock in through network effects and your data that is stored there is also creating some amount of lock in. You could choose to abandon that network for any other one, there will be some pain felt in regards to personal data but that's about it. In a lack of choice context, you literally have no choice. Like with many locations and the cable provider that you use. If you don't use them, you have no alternative. Most of these lock-in platforms are really not a necessity, and the reality is that it's not the data as much as the network itself that becomes the large lock in mechanism. But either way, it's not the same thing as having only one option available. Then you truly have no ability to move elsewhere.
_pRwn_ 9y ago
you can thank the EU-GDPR for this. The EU will enforce fines of 20 million Euros or 4% of annual global turnover if they don't comply.
ucaetano 9y ago
I wonder if they purposefully downsized the resolution of the images to give its users a big "fuck you" for leaving, like Facebook does (all FB images from the "data download" option were downsized to ~800x600)?
- airstrike 9y ago
  It's my impression that the images get lossily compressed upon upload so not even sure if they even had an alternative here.
  - ucaetano 9y ago
    I don't know about Instagram, but on FB they definitely aren't. You can still access the full size image, but when you download all your data, they only give you the 800x600 version, "conveniently" stripped of all exif data.
CaptainZapp 9y ago
This may be a naive question, but since I don't use social media at all (save for a pretty dormant linked-in account) I really don't see the use of downloading your photos from a picture sharing site. Is it because of the contacts you have and would that data be in any usable format? While I can see the appeal of a photo sharing site to share pictures I would have to be incredibly reckless or stupid to use such a site for archival purposes (let alone that I certainly wouldn't trust them not to wreck my pictures with some heavy handed compression or scaling). Is it just me who cares about my original images enough to archive them redundantly on a variety of storage media? And if that's not so, why would I ever care to be able to retrieve my pictures from such a site?
- yeswecatan 9y ago
  Most people aren't like you :) I would imagine many people lose photos over the years, whether it's getting a new phone or simply not understanding how iCloud/Google Photos etc. works. Photos from Instagram will also have any filters you added.
- endless1234 9y ago
  >Is it just me who cares about my original images enough to archive them redundantly on a variety of storage media? I'd say pretty much yes, especially when talking about pictures taken with smartphones and "variety of storage media" not just meaning the somewhat automatic (requiring just an one time setup) platform cloud backup.
holri 9y ago
Thank's to GDPR and EU.
donttrack 9y ago
I clicked "I am 13 years old or below" just because I could and am now locked out because I am not old enough obviously. I wonder if I come back in 6 months and try to revive my account by contacting Instagram they will still have the account on file.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
zimpenfish 9y ago
Note that this doesn't seem to include your photos (even though the download page says it does) - I got a 386kb zip file of JSON. It doesn't include any information -about- your photos either (when you posted, image filename, where you posted it, your title, comments on it, etc.) I assume this is some kind of first draft or staged rollout?

187 points by artsandsci 9y ago

mtgx 9y ago

Thanks to GDPR.

ceejayoz 9y ago
It's remarkable how many "we're being transparent! out of the sheer goodness of our hearts!" emails I've gotten lately. I also think it's hilarious that Techcrunch is acting like it's their doing that this is coming.

downandout 9y ago

Instagram has become the dominant image sharing social network with over 800 million users. It shouldn’t need to lock up users’ data in order to keep them around. That's fine for Instagram, but what about startups that want to compete with them? They'll find that users will build up collections of photos and videos (perhaps using proprietary filters that make a given application popular for a while) at their expense, and then instantly abandon their platforms. GDPR is great, or at least not a negative for large platforms, but a disaster for startups.

fwdpropaganda 9y ago
> Instagram has become the dominant image sharing social network with over 800 million users. It shouldn’t need to lock up users’ data in order to keep them around. > That's fine for Instagram, but what about startups that want to compete and find that users can now build up collections of photos and videos (perhaps using proprietary filters that make a given application popular for a while) at their expense and then instantly abandon their platforms? GDPR is great, or at least not a negative for large companies, but a disaster for startups. So what are you saying? That startups should have the right to lock up their users just so they can have a business? No, sorry. If your business depends on "locking up users", maybe you shouldn't have a business.
- downandout 9y ago
  So what are you saying? That startups should have the right to lock up their users just so they can have a business? I'm saying that startups should have the right to engineer their platforms in the way that they see fit. Because of GDPR, no startup (at least those that accept EU traffic) will ever achieve the social lock-in that Instagram has. Instagram built their user base in an era where it was difficult for average users to get their pictures out. Did your startup come up with a new set of filters that make photos go really viral? Awesome! Users will just make it in your app and then export it to Instagram, where people will actually see it. You'll go bankrupt...but Instagram usage will increase as a result of your efforts.
  - fwdpropaganda 9y ago
    > Startups should have the right to engineer their platforms in the way that they see fit. Because of GDPR, no startup (at least those that accept EU traffic) will ever achieve the social lock-in that Instagram has. Instagram built their user base in an era where it was difficult for average users to get their pictures out. Did your startup come up with a new set of filters that make photos go really viral? Awesome! Users will just make it in your app and then export it to Instagram, where people will actually see it. You'll go bankrupt...but Instagram usage will increase as a result of your efforts. Do you realize how backwards that is? All throughout history it's been the case that circumstances change. Maybe what was a viable business to start before, isn't now. Well, those that took the chance when this was allowed are banking on it, but now no one else can. Your argument is: person X exploited bad thing Z before, so we must continue to allow back thing Z just in case person Y also wants to exploit it. No, that's completely backwards. Some people got rich off slavery, so we shouldn't make slavery illegal because my startup wants to take advantage of it too. /s
    - downandout 9y ago
      You're comparing the inability to easily move pictures from one service to another to slavery? That's quite the leap, though not unexpected on HN these days. Anyway, I hope you enjoy Instagram if you are in a GDPR-affected country, because no competitor will ever emerge as a result of this law. They'll have all of your data, and you'll have to agree to it being analyzed in whatever way they choose because there is not and never will be another service to go to (which renders this entire point of this law moot).
ummonk 9y ago
What about them? If they provide a platform that is good for users, users will continue to use them. If not, the users will take their data elsewhere. That's the way it should work.
ceejayoz 9y ago
You're saying "what about startups that want to compete" while arguing it's not fair to make them have to actually compete. I don't follow.
frgtpsswrdlame 9y ago
I think we should just outright reject the notion that user lockin is something startups (or any company) has a right to. I don't think it's really good for consumers when companies become 'platforms' that you can't leave. Well functioning markets allow users to easily switch between services. Also: >startups that want to compete and find that users can now build up collections of photos and videos at their expense If users using your service is 'at your expense' and not 'for your profit' then that seems to be mostly a problem with the company's business model.
make3 9y ago
users shouldn't stay just because it's inconvenient to leave, they should stay because the product is good
maxerickson 9y ago
So you are saying they will have to have some sort of business model from the get go?

bhnmmhmd 9y ago

It's unfortunate how Instagram, as a very popular social network, has a very slow speed of improvement. Too many features missing, UI still has issues (not to mention the lack of a dark theme), the UX is just "weird" and the setting menu reminds me of Winphone settings: too cluttered, many useless buttons, and no icons! On top of that, many times images won't just load. And Videos play automatically, consuming much internet traffic.

JumpCrisscross 9y ago
> lack of a dark theme Why should this be a priority for anyone?
- bhnmmhmd 9y ago
  The same reason I use dark theme on HN as well.
- opencl 9y ago
  Dark themes can provide significant energy efficiency improvements on OLED screens which are becoming increasingly popular. Though IG would probably benefit significantly less than text-heavy apps because the screen is mostly taken up by photos which aren't impacted by dark themes. https://www.anandtech.com/show/9394/analysing-amoled-power-efficiency https://www.anandtech.com/show/9394/analysing-amoled-power-e... This article is a bit old, but on the Galaxy S6 at full brightness displaying an image with 40% average picture level saves half a watt compared to full white.
qmalzp 9y ago
I completely disagree. One of the main reasons I prefer Instagram is precisely that it's not packed to the brim with features I don't use.

fredley 9y ago

If you do want to delete your account, and you're in the EU, wait until after the 25th of May. Once the GDPR is in force, your rights concerning your data when you delete your account are much, much stronger.

nsbq71 9y ago
Okay, is this really true or not? Because I marked my FB acc for deletion a few days ago and reading this so much is making me think of cancelling and waiting until now, but it really doesn't make much sense
- idoh 9y ago
  Sounds true to me. May 25 is the start date, and the penalties for noncompliance are insane.
  - nsbq71 9y ago
    I thought it worked retroactively too.
    - idoh 9y ago
      It is possible that there is some other rule in place for that, but the GDPR isn't retroactive as far as I remember.
      - lixtra 9y ago
        GDPR is already active. It's just the punishment section that is not yet active. On May 25th, if a company has (still) data about you, they have to comply or (now) face the consequences.
        idoh 9y ago
        That's a really pedantic interpretation :) It has been adopted and published, but enforcement starts May 25. Because nothing can actually happen until May 25, I think that is a more reasonable date to say that it is "active".

numerlo 9y ago

>Two weeks ago TechCrunch called on Instagram to build an equivalent to Facebook’s “Download Your Information feature so if you wanted to leave for another photo sharing network, you could. The next day it announced this tool would be coming and now TechCrunch has spotted it rolling out to users. So we've moved from companies trying to make compliance to GDPR look like they are doing us a favor out of the goodness of their hearts to now tech sites trying to take the credit for that too. Who will be the next I wonder.

deft 9y ago
"We always had that feature!"
will_brown 9y ago
It’s a lot like the NRA...they fight gun regulation tooth and nail, then when the writing is on the wall for a given issue, they take credit for spearheading the initiative. Perfect example: NRA fighting regulations on gun sales by mail order. JFK is assasinated using a rifle ordered by mail right out of a magazine owned/published by the NRA. Gun purchase by mail order is outlawed...NRA proceeds to take credit for championing sensible gun regulations.
SmellyGeekBoy 9y ago
The tabloid newspapers in the UK do this sort of thing all the time. I'm not sure what that says about TechCrunch, if anything.
antihero 9y ago
A company using it's compliance to regulation as a PR exercise? Who'd have thought it! Phone companies in the UK at least do this boasting EU free roaming as a "feature" they're so nice to provide, except that it's UK law. Three are the only network that did this voluntarily (and their Feel at home thing is also many places outside the EU which is nice)
- NicoJuicy 9y ago
  It's a EU law, not an UK one

raldi 9y ago

In the past, when a government sent an Internet company a National Security Letter (or equivalent), it was a lot of work for them to dig up every trace of content that user has ever produced or had recorded about them -- think, for example, of a Google account, which might have GMail archives, chat logs, search history, YouTube videos, Google+ posts, Google Voice records, Chrome backups.... It used to be really hard to gather all that information and package it up in a nice little bundle. It used to be hard for a company to get their software engineers to quietly implement such functionality across all products without getting internal angst and bad press leaks. But now, companies can just tell their software engineers that they're writing user-friendly data-portability features. Across all product lines, they'll happily code away, completely oblivious to the fact that their code is also going to be used for this other purpose.

degenerate 9y ago
Good point. If I was working with sensitive data, I would definitely question a decision on allowing data to be exported somewhere. I'd probably get confirmation from my manager in how that data was allowed to be accessed/requested. But if I was coding an export feature for users to download all their data in one click, I wouldn't think twice about it. I would assume it was used for that purpose. That's scary.
foolfoolz 9y ago
i think this is a false statement. i have worked for companies with lots of user data. the tools to download or retain all user data for legal reasons existed although they were not customer facing. one particular company i worked for had a tool to download all files to disk and partition into ~700mb chunks, helping you achieve the end goal of burning to files to CD rom. this was used frequently during subpoenas. i see the ability to download and delete your account as a good improvement
- raldi 9y ago
  What's the part of my comment that you think is false?

seccess 9y ago

I like to plug Google takeout[0] in these convos, which also lets you export data if you want to leave. Many people don't seem to know about it, but it is quite mature and has been around for many years. EDIT: To expand on this a bit more, I do wish there was more industry standardization when it comes to data import/export. Is there any standardized format for chat history, for example? [0] https://takeout.google.com https://takeout.google.com

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

raiyu 9y ago

I think people are confusing lock in with lack of choice. Any network platform is creating lock in through network effects and your data that is stored there is also creating some amount of lock in. You could choose to abandon that network for any other one, there will be some pain felt in regards to personal data but that's about it. In a lack of choice context, you literally have no choice. Like with many locations and the cable provider that you use. If you don't use them, you have no alternative. Most of these lock-in platforms are really not a necessity, and the reality is that it's not the data as much as the network itself that becomes the large lock in mechanism. But either way, it's not the same thing as having only one option available. Then you truly have no ability to move elsewhere.

_pRwn_ 9y ago

you can thank the EU-GDPR for this. The EU will enforce fines of 20 million Euros or 4% of annual global turnover if they don't comply.

ucaetano 9y ago

I wonder if they purposefully downsized the resolution of the images to give its users a big "fuck you" for leaving, like Facebook does (all FB images from the "data download" option were downsized to ~800x600)?

airstrike 9y ago
It's my impression that the images get lossily compressed upon upload so not even sure if they even had an alternative here.
- ucaetano 9y ago
  I don't know about Instagram, but on FB they definitely aren't. You can still access the full size image, but when you download all your data, they only give you the 800x600 version, "conveniently" stripped of all exif data.

CaptainZapp 9y ago

This may be a naive question, but since I don't use social media at all (save for a pretty dormant linked-in account) I really don't see the use of downloading your photos from a picture sharing site. Is it because of the contacts you have and would that data be in any usable format? While I can see the appeal of a photo sharing site to share pictures I would have to be incredibly reckless or stupid to use such a site for archival purposes (let alone that I certainly wouldn't trust them not to wreck my pictures with some heavy handed compression or scaling). Is it just me who cares about my original images enough to archive them redundantly on a variety of storage media? And if that's not so, why would I ever care to be able to retrieve my pictures from such a site?

yeswecatan 9y ago
Most people aren't like you :) I would imagine many people lose photos over the years, whether it's getting a new phone or simply not understanding how iCloud/Google Photos etc. works. Photos from Instagram will also have any filters you added.
endless1234 9y ago
>Is it just me who cares about my original images enough to archive them redundantly on a variety of storage media? I'd say pretty much yes, especially when talking about pictures taken with smartphones and "variety of storage media" not just meaning the somewhat automatic (requiring just an one time setup) platform cloud backup.

holri 9y ago

Thank's to GDPR and EU.

donttrack 9y ago

I clicked "I am 13 years old or below" just because I could and am now locked out because I am not old enough obviously. I wonder if I come back in 6 months and try to revive my account by contacting Instagram they will still have the account on file.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

zimpenfish 9y ago

Note that this doesn't seem to include your photos (even though the download page says it does) - I got a 386kb zip file of JSON. It doesn't include any information -about- your photos either (when you posted, image filename, where you posted it, your title, comments on it, etc.) I assume this is some kind of first draft or staged rollout?