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Does your bank send you messages on WhatsApp? Ofcourse not. They use SMS. This whole initiative is about extending the base-protocol (SMS) which everyone is cu

Does your bank send you messages on WhatsApp? Ofcourse not. They use SMS. This whole initiative is about extending the base-protocol (SMS) which everyone is currently limited by. While not universally good (carriers are still given too much power, w.r.t. billing, etc), it's main advantage over any other platform currently available is that this is a protocol-standard suggestion. It's not a walled garden like iMessage or any of those other IM services (which is why no banks or similar use these services, but still use SMS). This is something completely different, and I honestly wish more tech-startups would think in terms of standardized protocols instead of closed services. Creating and developing standardized protocols is what once made the internet great and infinitely innovative. Recently the rise of closed services is what has caused this innovation-curve to almost completely drop down to zero. Basically we need more protocol-development. EOT. Maybe next time we can draft a standardized protocol which wont give or even include carriers. But for now this is a good start for creating a standard IM platform available for everyone to replace SMS. Apple should have done this ages ago with iMessage, but didn't. Props to Google for actually putting in the effort this time around!

limeblack 9y ago
I wouldn't call it extending the SMS protocol when it uses your data plan[1]. [1] https://youtu.be/PCh-qRYMAKk?t=3m39s https://youtu.be/PCh-qRYMAKk?t=3m39s
FutureSpec 9y ago
> But for now this is a good start for creating a standard IM platform available for everyone to replace SMS. Or it's just a bandaid on a hobbling, old protocol that we should move past. I think Google errs here in being too concerned about backwards compatibility. That there are so many alternatives (WhatsApp, iMessage, Signal) shows there's demand to move on from SMS. And Google of all companies should know how crappy it is to have to rely on carriers (look at the years-long Android updates debacle). I hear what you're saying about standards being helpful on the Internet, but SMS is a shitty standard from 1984 that even then was built on compromises and hacks (basically fudging things by using an area of GSM that was never designed for messaging): * "The GSM is optimized for telephony, since this was identified as its main application. The key idea for SMS was to use this telephone-optimized system, and to transport messages on the signalling paths needed to control the telephone traffic during periods when no signalling traffic existed. In this way, unused resources in the system could be used to transport messages at minimal cost. However, it was necessary to limit the length of the messages to 128 bytes" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SMS#Initial_concept https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SMS#Initial_concept
JumpCrisscross 9y ago
> Does your bank send you messages on WhatsApp? Was setting up an account in India (Yes Bank, I believe). Banker messaged me on WhatsApp.
- djrogers 9y ago
  Your banker messaging you is completely different from your bank's systems sending you messages for overdraft, balances, etc. This will likely still happen over sms...
  - awad 9y ago
    https://www.commercial.hsbc.com.hk/1/2/commercial/online-services/faq/wechat https://www.commercial.hsbc.com.hk/1/2/commercial/online-ser... WeChat != WhatsApp but it is as close as it gets to the 'Messaging Service as an OS/platform' paradigm as it gets
    - thisacctforreal 9y ago
      It is also as dystopian as it gets.
whyever 9y ago
> Does your bank send you messages on WhatsApp? Ofcourse not. They use SMS. I would much prefer if they used WhatsApp, because then it would not be ridiculously insecure.
- pilsetnieks 9y ago
  So instead of your operator, you want Facebook of all the things ingesting information about your purchases and account balance?
  - whyever 9y ago
    Well, supposedly it is end-to-end encrypted, so they don't get that information unless they are lying. Even if, it is still better than "anyone how cares to listen". SMS is not secure at all.
    - IshKebab 9y ago
      The content is e2e encrypted but Facebook can get all the metadata - who you message and when.

limeblack 9y ago

I wouldn't call it extending the SMS protocol when it uses your data plan[1]. [1] https://youtu.be/PCh-qRYMAKk?t=3m39s https://youtu.be/PCh-qRYMAKk?t=3m39s

FutureSpec 9y ago

> But for now this is a good start for creating a standard IM platform available for everyone to replace SMS. Or it's just a bandaid on a hobbling, old protocol that we should move past. I think Google errs here in being too concerned about backwards compatibility. That there are so many alternatives (WhatsApp, iMessage, Signal) shows there's demand to move on from SMS. And Google of all companies should know how crappy it is to have to rely on carriers (look at the years-long Android updates debacle). I hear what you're saying about standards being helpful on the Internet, but SMS is a shitty standard from 1984 that even then was built on compromises and hacks (basically fudging things by using an area of GSM that was never designed for messaging): * "The GSM is optimized for telephony, since this was identified as its main application. The key idea for SMS was to use this telephone-optimized system, and to transport messages on the signalling paths needed to control the telephone traffic during periods when no signalling traffic existed. In this way, unused resources in the system could be used to transport messages at minimal cost. However, it was necessary to limit the length of the messages to 128 bytes" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SMS#Initial_concept https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SMS#Initial_concept

JumpCrisscross 9y ago

> Does your bank send you messages on WhatsApp? Was setting up an account in India (Yes Bank, I believe). Banker messaged me on WhatsApp.

djrogers 9y ago
Your banker messaging you is completely different from your bank's systems sending you messages for overdraft, balances, etc. This will likely still happen over sms...
- awad 9y ago
  https://www.commercial.hsbc.com.hk/1/2/commercial/online-services/faq/wechat https://www.commercial.hsbc.com.hk/1/2/commercial/online-ser... WeChat != WhatsApp but it is as close as it gets to the 'Messaging Service as an OS/platform' paradigm as it gets
  - thisacctforreal 9y ago
    It is also as dystopian as it gets.

whyever 9y ago

> Does your bank send you messages on WhatsApp? Ofcourse not. They use SMS. I would much prefer if they used WhatsApp, because then it would not be ridiculously insecure.

pilsetnieks 9y ago
So instead of your operator, you want Facebook of all the things ingesting information about your purchases and account balance?
- whyever 9y ago
  Well, supposedly it is end-to-end encrypted, so they don't get that information unless they are lying. Even if, it is still better than "anyone how cares to listen". SMS is not secure at all.
  - IshKebab 9y ago
    The content is e2e encrypted but Facebook can get all the metadata - who you message and when.