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> Quite frankly the core problem with Google's strategy is involving then at all. Instead, go the manufacturers and campaign against supporting sms at all. It's

> Quite frankly the core problem with Google's strategy is involving then at all. Instead, go the manufacturers and campaign against supporting sms at all. It's insecure, slow, unreliable, monitored, among many other things. Push the manufacturers to an open Android messaging api that runs over TLS (or double ratchet) and bypasses the carriers completely, but the manufacturers can still rebrand. But it's universal. I would never buy a phone that doesn't support sms. How do I contact people with flip phones? People with iPhones? Also, Gchat is "monitored" as much as sms. Imessage claims it's not, but has that/can that be verified?

sethhochberg 9y ago
Its both universal _and_ relies on the voice network rather than the data network (if the device even has one). SMS is a fundamental part of the GSM spec, has been for over 30 years, and is one of those super lightweight battle-tested technologies that there are certainly some pretty great IP-based alternatives to, but which replacing wholesale for some yet-another-IP-based-rebranded-messanger seems crazy. The beauty of SMS riding on the voice network is that it gives you redundancy. Phone doesn't have a data signal, but can get voice? SMS still works. Until we live in a world where GSM and friends are dead and everything everywhere is VoLTE, SMS still has a place as a fallback. I'm always a little surprised to come into HN comment threads about SMS and see so many people rallying for its replacement, yet we go into a thread about Slack and see many of the same arguments being made to defend IRC, etc.
- goalieca 9y ago
  IRC is more modern in a sense. It usually works over an IP network.
azinman2 9y ago
iMessage is end-to-end encryption.
- arkadiytehgraet 9y ago
  How do you know that? Have you seen sources and verified that those sources are actually compiled and shipped with the final product?
  - Analemma_ 9y ago
    Unless you write your own compiler, look at every line of the source by hand well enough to ensure there no "underhanded C code contest" backdoors, compile the application yourself, load it onto your phone, and do the same for your friends and share keys with them in person, you don't have this kind of assurance for any communication app. You have to draw a line somewhere and accept some level of trust proportionate to your threat model. iMessage is good enough for most people who aren't Edward Snowden.
  - prepend 9y ago
    That’s a good point. Apple attests that it’s end to end and people have tried to track and fail and leaks don’t reveal vulnerabilities. By comparison, no other majors attest that (eg, Google explicitly says it’s not end to end) and leaks have shown data accessed in clear text by government actors.

sethhochberg 9y ago

Its both universal _and_ relies on the voice network rather than the data network (if the device even has one). SMS is a fundamental part of the GSM spec, has been for over 30 years, and is one of those super lightweight battle-tested technologies that there are certainly some pretty great IP-based alternatives to, but which replacing wholesale for some yet-another-IP-based-rebranded-messanger seems crazy. The beauty of SMS riding on the voice network is that it gives you redundancy. Phone doesn't have a data signal, but can get voice? SMS still works. Until we live in a world where GSM and friends are dead and everything everywhere is VoLTE, SMS still has a place as a fallback. I'm always a little surprised to come into HN comment threads about SMS and see so many people rallying for its replacement, yet we go into a thread about Slack and see many of the same arguments being made to defend IRC, etc.

goalieca 9y ago
IRC is more modern in a sense. It usually works over an IP network.

azinman2 9y ago

iMessage is end-to-end encryption.

arkadiytehgraet 9y ago
How do you know that? Have you seen sources and verified that those sources are actually compiled and shipped with the final product?
- Analemma_ 9y ago
  Unless you write your own compiler, look at every line of the source by hand well enough to ensure there no "underhanded C code contest" backdoors, compile the application yourself, load it onto your phone, and do the same for your friends and share keys with them in person, you don't have this kind of assurance for any communication app. You have to draw a line somewhere and accept some level of trust proportionate to your threat model. iMessage is good enough for most people who aren't Edward Snowden.
- prepend 9y ago
  That’s a good point. Apple attests that it’s end to end and people have tried to track and fail and leaks don’t reveal vulnerabilities. By comparison, no other majors attest that (eg, Google explicitly says it’s not end to end) and leaks have shown data accessed in clear text by government actors.