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Facebook to ask everyone to accept being tracked so they can keep using it
- dingaling 8y agoNicely juxtapositioned with the Independent's ad for their Facebook Bitcoin group. Facebook groups really are the antithesis of the Internet, being closed and unindexable. Anyway perhaps these no-decline 'permission' screens will cause a few people to reconsider their presence on Facebook. After all the company's Chief Privacy Officer endorses it! “People can choose to not be on Facebook if they want"
- nathanaldensr 8y ago"Chief Privacy Officer" at a company that wouldn't exist were real privacy to be present in their products.
- muro 8y agoHeh, funny. Unfortunately also nonsense. A CFO also exists and not because a company doesn't handle finances responsibly. Or a CEO implies no engineering?
- matrixagent 8y agoI think you misread. The implication was that Facebook would not exist with real privacy in the product, not the role of CPO within Facebook.
- muro 8y agoDoh. You are right. Apologies for the snark.
- nathanaldensr 8y agoYes, this is correct. Thanks for clarifying.
- kleiba 8y agoperhaps these no-decline 'permission' screens will cause a few people to reconsider their presence on Facebook Yes, but not more than a few. Privacy is not a big concern for most. “People can choose to not be on Facebook if they want" I made my choice a number of years ago.
- inetsee 8y agoI just added the "Facebook Container" extension to my Firefox browser. I am hoping it will prevent most of Facebook's tracking, but I do know that it probably won't block all the tracking.
- jmngomes 8y agoWon't ublock [1] solve that by blocking that kind of scripts from loading? [1] https://www.ublock.org/ https://www.ublock.org/
- munk-a 8y agoThere are other ways that facebook can track you, ublock does counter a lot of it but there is a constant stream of innovations and work arounds by tracking companies to keep a hold on you. I think the financial motivation for them to keep tracking you outweighs the effort ublock can put into stopping that. The firefox container is a legitimately novel approach to stopping the problem though I'm certain it will be attacked as well... I think starting from a stance of distrust gives them a lot more power to combat tracking efforts.
- schiffern 8y agoStrange to disparage uBlock Origin while praising Facebook Container, because the latter is weaker than the former. uBlock Origin with either "Fanboy's Third Party Social" or "Fanboy's Social Blocking List" selected will block all third-party connections to Facebook servers, period. Of course Facebook can still spy on you via other spy companies, but the "EasyPrivacy" list cuts that down a lot too. On the other hand, Facebook Container still happily connect to Facebook servers from third-party websites, leaking your IP, useragent, the URL of the webpage you're viewing, headers containing fingerprinting information like fonts , etc. Facebook Container does one thing and one thing only: strip off the Facebook cookie. But this is almost worthless from an information theoretic perspective, because Facebook can trivially de-anonymize you through IP/timestamp/header correlation.
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- fuscy 8y agoConsidering that Facebook makes its revenue from ads and that providing relevant ads needs data and tracking, this move is not so bad. Users that don’t accept the terms or use various tech to block this, would receive misappropriated ads. Bad ads make companies lose revenue while annoying the users with extremely irrelevant info. This method should be extremely effective in removing false positives. Personal observation: ads are never going to go away and I personally prefer receiving ads about some local beer brand and not about lipstick or sake in Japan.
- drb91 8y agouBlock Origin makes the ads go away pretty well. I'm also open to paying.
- matty22 8y agoDoes uBlock Origin actually have any effect on ads or sponsored posts in Facebook? I run ABP and there are still ads all over the place in Facebook. I've taken to reporting every ad I see in my Timeline as spam.
- stan_rogers 8y agoFluff Busting Purity (formerly Facebook Purity). Nukes everything; maintainer is hugely on the ball, rolling out fixes for FB's breaking bugs within hours (and occasionally within minutes). If it's not in your browser's extensions/addons "store", you can find it at https://www.fbpurity.com/ https://www.fbpurity.com/
- drewmol 8y agoIve heard but can't confirm that ABP sells the ability for ad servers to be white listed. Ublock + enabling various lists is better. Check out Umatrix.
- Guest9812398 8y agoWhy can't we simply choose relevant ad categories that we would prefer to see? Why do the options need to be (i) see random advertisements that are likely irrelevant, or (ii) allow us to track your every move, including your location, each site you visit with the Facebook widget, your message and call history, and your every click. Or non-Facebook related, why can't my smart TV just let me choose PC Gaming, Technology, and Concert advertisements as highest priority. I might actually look forward to watching an Oculus or Vive advertisement, instead of putting the TV on mute, or leaving the room when I see another health insurance commercial for someone 60+.
- johnny313 8y agoThis does not discuss whether nonusers will be asked to opt-in. Curious how GDPR will change tracking people w/out FB accounts.
- downandout 8y agoYou can already see it on many sites. They're basically just a more forceful version of cookie notifications with language about third party tracking thrown in that force you to say "OK" or tell you to leave. Here's an example: http://prntscr.com/j67usw http://prntscr.com/j67usw FB, as with all third party trackers, isn't the one actually responsible for notifying you about the use of their pixels etc. on third party sites. The site operator using it is. See https://developers.facebook.com/docs/privacy https://developers.facebook.com/docs/privacy
- polskibus 8y agoThat popup contains false statement though. How does personalizing ads make the site easier to use?
- 013 8y agoThey could argue that keeping you logged in with cookies makes it easier for you to use.
- polskibus 8y agothat part is true, the part about ads isn't. Also AFAIK GDPR doesn't let the companies to glue all possible data processing purposes into one consent and indefinitely - there should be a clear message also on the timeline of data processing, what data is collected (not just cookies) and informing that I can withdraw my consent at any time.
- Silhouette 8y agoOne of the main points of the GDPR is that this sort of treatment is unlikely to be legal any more, to the extent that it ever was. Processing based on consent is now going to require active consent that can't be opted-in by default or hidden away in legal wording no-one ever reads. It's going to be tough to argue that tracking someone who isn't connected to your business/organisation has any of the acceptable bases other than consent. And without some clear basis, processing is going to be prohibited by default.
- d6de964 8y agoGoogle already does this anytime I clear my cookies. Why would they allow someone using the service if they didn't get something back?
- Silhouette 8y agoWhy would they allow someone using the service if they didn't get something back? That's a good question, but once GDPR is in effect, the law is going to require that all consent is genuine, informed, active consent. A consequence of that is that someone must be able to withhold their consent without suffering for it, unless the thing they're consenting to is essential to whatever else they're doing. If you're thinking this fundamentally undermines the current business model of sites like Facebook, you're probably right, and given the political rhetoric around the GDPR, it's possible that this was the intention of the EU from the start.
- wbl 8y agoAd revenue is essential to Facebook running. My guess is that FB will continue to work even without this other data just given what they know on the site.
- Silhouette 8y agoAd revenue is essential to Facebook running. Ad revenue may be essential to Facebook being commercially viable, but it's not required at all to provide the social networking features that users actually want. My guess is that FB will continue to work even without this other data just given what they know on the site. But if they have data acquired with users' consent for social networking purposes, they won't be allowed to process that data for purposes such as targeting ads without consent.
- xg15 8y agoGood question - though half of the internet has been built by pretending to offer your service for free. So either we keep doing that or we have to admit that our whole industry has been lying to their users.
- epiapp 8y agoMy adblocker detects approximately 44 trackers on that page, including one from connect.facebook.net.
- craftyguy 8y agoThe article isn't "Independent to ask everyone to accept being tracked".
- gowld 8y agobottom of the page says: > We use cookies to enhance your visit to our site and to bring you advertisements that might interest you. Read our Privacy and Cookie Policies to find out more.
- bhhaskin 8y agoNo, but how can you trust a source if they are doing the exact same thing? They are a bit hypocritical.
- confounded 8y agoThe entire text-media industry has been transformed by Facebook and Google into this state. Anything that used to be a newspaper is now a DFP content-farm with all the shitty third-party js they can manage to cram in there. Sites with paid subscriptions seem just as bad on the inside. The only other business model I’ve seen work is “be owned by a billionaire”.
- _o_ 8y agoThis action directly violates GDPR, the consent is not freely given and as such not valid. Trackwall is not acceptible, that's why "freely given" is written in Article 7.4. Bottom line, even if you give them consent in such forced manner, they will pay the fine if they use the data. Not only that, I bet that in this moment there is a lawyer preparing class action against FB for forcing the consent (And they will win! After 25th of May, FB is breaking the EU law). Max Schrems gave FB hard time before and I bet he is just waiting for new chance, this is his site https://noyb.eu/ https://noyb.eu/ , check it and check how many donations he got. I am stockpiling myself with popcorns as this is going to be fun to watch. I really thought that FB is going to be smarter, probably Zuck got another of his tantrums and did another really stupid business mistake, that will cost him a lot. But, as FB user, please consider something else: Facebook is trying to downplay your rights, which directly proves that don't care about you. Do you really want to continue using such service? Do you really value yourself so low that you are prepared to bend over?
- _o_ 8y agoJust to back it up, I have missed this in news, Max Schrems already tryed (with class action of 25000 FB users), but had no legislation to back it up, with GDPR he got the green light: https://www.politico.eu/article/facebook-ecj-european-court-justice-max-schrems-austria-lawsuit-classaction-privacy-data-protection-max-schrems/ https://www.politico.eu/article/facebook-ecj-european-court-... "Europeans will in future be able to bring US-style class actions for (alleged) privacy violations, instead of having to sue individually and expensively. It’s thanks to a little-known clause of the EU’s GDPR, which comes into force in May." And maybe for non-EU users, don't complain about GDPR, back it up, you will give your legislators a powerfull signal and you might also get the protection of your fundamential human right.
- lolc 8y agoI think a lot of lawyers are poring over provision 42 of GDPR these days: "(42) Where processing is based on the data subject's consent, the controller should be able to demonstrate that the data subject has given consent to the processing operation. [...] For consent to be informed, the data subject should be aware at least of the identity of the controller and the purposes of the processing for which the personal data are intended. Consent should not be regarded as freely given if the data subject has no genuine or free choice or is unable to refuse or withdraw consent without detriment." Are people free to leave Facebook? Me, I need an account with Google for my job. Will they now only be allowed to demand I consent to the parts of the data processing necessary to provide the services I use? Or in other words, since I don't rely on their advertising, does GDPR mandate that opt-in to tracking for ads must be optional?
- garmaine 8y agoYou can delete your account, yes.
- lolc 8y agoI can't delete my account with Google without detriment.
- eitally 8y agoYour employer will agree to their terms on your behalf, and if you are not comfortable with either that process or the terms, you are welcome to terminate your employment. This is no different from companies accepting ToS/EULA from any other technology vendor. FWIW, Google's commercial terms are not the same as consumer terms ... again, like every other software vendor.
- ben_w 8y ago> you are welcome to terminate your employment. That fails the test: > Consent should not be regarded as freely given if the data subject has no genuine or free choice or is unable to refuse or withdraw consent without detriment.
- panarky 8y agoThe screens will not give Facebook users the option to hit "decline." Instead, they will guide users to either "accept and continue" or "manage data setting." Also known as "Hobson's Choice": a free choice in which only one thing is offered. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hobson%27s_choice https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hobson%27s_choice Naturally the vast majority will just click through and accept the defaults. But what if a small number does not? Could Facebook see 6% or 4% or 2% attrition because of this? 2% attrition of 2.2 billion users is like the entire population of California and Oregon. This many people leaving the network makes it a little less connected and a little less valuable for the 98% who remain. That's a lot of people wandering about, discovering new alternatives to connect with their friends and family. Facebook will be with us for a long time, but reducing their influence would be a big net positive.
- nkkollaw 8y agoI don't know if Facebook's influence hasn't been reduced already, and how many users it actually has. I still have an account for instance, but I log in only once/mo. and keep it solely for the API keys. My friends seem to be a little less active then 10 years ago, as well.
- jsemrau 8y ago>how many users it actually has. I would assume a large percentage of this number are bots / automated content.
- matte_black 8y agoSeems less active is not the same as not active. In the height of Facebooks data scandal, daily deletions — people who deleted their accounts and quit Facebook — was at about 4000-5000 users a day. It has now returned to normal levels, of about 1000 a day. Facebook has 1.86 billion users. Look upon these numbers, and despair.
- product50 8y agoDon't relate your experience to everyone else's. My friends are more active than ever on FB today for instance. Also, FB revenue and users are increasing - which indicates they are not seeing any downturn like what you are talking about here.
- everyone 8y agoI'm a member of a facebook group for Irish game developers. Very good group, pretty much the only reason I use fb. Though I am logged on all day as I dont want to miss anything on it. I tabled the idea of the group leaving fb for somewhere else, as now would be the time people would be receptive to that idea. The consensus was, nah, dont bother, this is fine... welp.
- petercooper 8y agoThis whole Facebook debacle has certainly helped me see some "bubbles" more clearly. I've encountered plenty of people who hadn't even heard of the recent Facebook privacy issues, let alone actually care. There are plenty of people who don't even follow the main news headlines, let alone pay attention when it gets political or technical.
- elliottcarlson 8y agoUnrelated to your post for the most part, but just to clarify for readers; tabling an idea in American English is to postpone a decision (potentially indefinitely), while in British English this is the exact opposite and means that the idea is being presented for review at the current moment.
- oddity 8y agoI've lived in America most of my life, but I've only ever heard (or assumed?) the latter usage, which I assumed related to the phrase "is on the table". I wonder what the origin of the former is. edit: I suppose it comes from how optimistically/pessimistically you view someone saying that a decision is on the table, I guess. Funny.
- femto 8y agoAustralians may wish to refer it to the ACCC if Facebook offers them a "take it or leave" choice. Even if the laws regarding unfair consumer contracts turn out not to apply, it would be interesting to get the ACCC's formal response on it. https://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/contracts-agreements/unfair-contract-terms https://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/contracts-agreements/unfai...
- harry8 8y agoThey track me. I don't accept it. I have no facebook account. They are crooks.
- modzu 8y agoso whos tried mastodon?
- FullMtlAlcoholc 8y agoFacebook was already on a decline as it was becoming the social media platform for senior citizens. I do wonder how this will affect Instagram, which is where most of my peers and friends are.
- merrywhether 8y agoDoes the GDPR allow sites to have a “pay real money or subsidize your experience through tracking” option?
- paulie_a 8y agoWhere is the "go fuck yourself mark zuckerberg" option