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Ketamine is an anesthetic. Has anyone compared it to e.g. ibuprofen for this use case? Ibuprofen works very well for me when experiencing depressive symptoms. I

Ketamine is an anesthetic. Has anyone compared it to e.g. ibuprofen for this use case? Ibuprofen works very well for me when experiencing depressive symptoms. I'm down to about 2h max per depressive episode (logged at 10-30 depressing thoughts per minute, compared to none after). Mechanism intuitively "feels" inflammatory and looking at my logs seems related to exhaustion due to over-productivity, lack of rest, etc.

starpilot 9y ago
I've taken ibuprofen for sports injuries a fair amount. Some times a lot of it. I've never noticed any effects on my depression.
AstralStorm 9y ago
Ketamine is a dissociative rather than your typical anaesthetic or pain killer. Id's mechanisms of action are not that well researched. The real question is, how long do the effects last and what are the side effects.
spiralx 9y ago
Pain killers can affect your emotional state indeed: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/painkillers-might-also-dull-your-emotions-180955003/ https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/painkillers-might-...
- themodelplumber 9y ago
  Thank you for the link, that's interesting. In my case any dulling of the emotional state when in a depressed situation is probably helpful. A return toward an emotionally-colder systematizer's state of mind seems, again in my case, to be associated with healthier outcomes.
xab9 9y ago
Paracetamol, metamizol, acetil acid, diclofenac and ibuprophen all fall into the same category (I have chronic headaches) but I really doubt any of them are good for depression. For stress I take small amount of frontin (xanaxish thing) and it acts all differently (for me at least) from the rest.
isoprophlex 9y ago
Mechanistically, there is a large difference between ibuprofen and ketamine. Ibuprofen does not work on the NMDA receptor, as ketamine does. NMDA activity modulation is associated with psychological phenomena: """NMDA receptor antagonists can mimic these problems; they sometimes induce "psychotomimetic" side effects, symptoms resembling psychosis. Such side effects caused by NMDA receptor inhibitors include hallucinations, paranoid delusions, confusion, difficulty concentrating, agitation, alterations in mood, nightmares, catatonia,;ataxia, anesthesia, and learning and memory deficits.""" (From Wikipedia) Ibuprofen hits the COX enzymes, for which no psychological effects are noted. Edit: of course I'm not discounting your own observations, just regurgitating some textbook knowledge.
kvgr 9y ago
There could be some connection, since physical and mental pain activate similar brain regions. I can see how pain killers may help to some degree with emotional pain. (Not a doctor)
amelius 9y ago
Warning for long-term ibuprofen users: https://www.nhs.uk/news/medication/ibuprofen-linked-testosterone-problems/ https://www.nhs.uk/news/medication/ibuprofen-linked-testoste...
- themodelplumber 9y ago
  Thank you. I'm not sure what to make of the study itself, but that is one of the most approachable write-ups I've ever read.
herbst 9y ago
I never noticed a anti depressive use of ibuprofen. Ketamine however actively puts you into a 'better mind space'
psyc 9y ago
Ketamine isn't a pain reliever. It's a dissociative hallucinogen. It works by disconnecting you from sensory input and putting you in something like a lucid dream.
- atomical 9y ago
  This isn't true. Ketamine infusions are also administered to patients with chronic pain.
  - psyc 9y ago
    That it’s given for pain does not make it anything like what people think of as a pain reliever. It’s nothing like Tylenol, ibuprofen, or opiates.
    - atomical 9y ago
      It makes it a pain reliever.
ada1981 9y ago
Your emotional body is your physical body, to a large degree. Emotional pain can be mitigated with ibuprofen just as easily as physical pain can. Congrats on the self study and experimentation and on finding an over the counter solution. Have you tried any non-ordinary states of concioisness work, like Holotropic Breathwork?
- themodelplumber 9y ago
  I haven't ever heard of holotropic breathwork, will give it a go, thanks. I have had really good results from meditation, especially when sleep is out of the question.
nylonstrung 9y ago
https://www.psychologicalscience.org/news/releases/experiencing-existential-dread-tylenol-may-do-the-trick.html https://www.psychologicalscience.org/news/releases/experienc... Ibuprofen actually does work, believe it or not.
- themodelplumber 9y ago
  I appreciate the link! I find this all very fascinating.

starpilot 9y ago

I've taken ibuprofen for sports injuries a fair amount. Some times a lot of it. I've never noticed any effects on my depression.

AstralStorm 9y ago

Ketamine is a dissociative rather than your typical anaesthetic or pain killer. Id's mechanisms of action are not that well researched. The real question is, how long do the effects last and what are the side effects.

spiralx 9y ago

Pain killers can affect your emotional state indeed: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/painkillers-might-also-dull-your-emotions-180955003/ https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/painkillers-might-...

themodelplumber 9y ago
Thank you for the link, that's interesting. In my case any dulling of the emotional state when in a depressed situation is probably helpful. A return toward an emotionally-colder systematizer's state of mind seems, again in my case, to be associated with healthier outcomes.

xab9 9y ago

Paracetamol, metamizol, acetil acid, diclofenac and ibuprophen all fall into the same category (I have chronic headaches) but I really doubt any of them are good for depression. For stress I take small amount of frontin (xanaxish thing) and it acts all differently (for me at least) from the rest.

isoprophlex 9y ago

Mechanistically, there is a large difference between ibuprofen and ketamine. Ibuprofen does not work on the NMDA receptor, as ketamine does. NMDA activity modulation is associated with psychological phenomena: """NMDA receptor antagonists can mimic these problems; they sometimes induce "psychotomimetic" side effects, symptoms resembling psychosis. Such side effects caused by NMDA receptor inhibitors include hallucinations, paranoid delusions, confusion, difficulty concentrating, agitation, alterations in mood, nightmares, catatonia,;ataxia, anesthesia, and learning and memory deficits.""" (From Wikipedia) Ibuprofen hits the COX enzymes, for which no psychological effects are noted. Edit: of course I'm not discounting your own observations, just regurgitating some textbook knowledge.

kvgr 9y ago

There could be some connection, since physical and mental pain activate similar brain regions. I can see how pain killers may help to some degree with emotional pain. (Not a doctor)

amelius 9y ago

Warning for long-term ibuprofen users: https://www.nhs.uk/news/medication/ibuprofen-linked-testosterone-problems/ https://www.nhs.uk/news/medication/ibuprofen-linked-testoste...

themodelplumber 9y ago
Thank you. I'm not sure what to make of the study itself, but that is one of the most approachable write-ups I've ever read.

herbst 9y ago

I never noticed a anti depressive use of ibuprofen. Ketamine however actively puts you into a 'better mind space'

psyc 9y ago

Ketamine isn't a pain reliever. It's a dissociative hallucinogen. It works by disconnecting you from sensory input and putting you in something like a lucid dream.

atomical 9y ago
This isn't true. Ketamine infusions are also administered to patients with chronic pain.
- psyc 9y ago
  That it’s given for pain does not make it anything like what people think of as a pain reliever. It’s nothing like Tylenol, ibuprofen, or opiates.
  - atomical 9y ago
    It makes it a pain reliever.

ada1981 9y ago

Your emotional body is your physical body, to a large degree. Emotional pain can be mitigated with ibuprofen just as easily as physical pain can. Congrats on the self study and experimentation and on finding an over the counter solution. Have you tried any non-ordinary states of concioisness work, like Holotropic Breathwork?

themodelplumber 9y ago
I haven't ever heard of holotropic breathwork, will give it a go, thanks. I have had really good results from meditation, especially when sleep is out of the question.

nylonstrung 9y ago

https://www.psychologicalscience.org/news/releases/experiencing-existential-dread-tylenol-may-do-the-trick.html https://www.psychologicalscience.org/news/releases/experienc... Ibuprofen actually does work, believe it or not.

themodelplumber 9y ago
I appreciate the link! I find this all very fascinating.