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I’m no expert on meditation, but I read/listened to several teachers until I found a few that would explain it without the “woo woo”. A conclusion I came to ab

I’m no expert on meditation, but I read/listened to several teachers until I found a few that would explain it without the “woo woo”. A conclusion I came to about how it is taught is that besides some teachers being brought up on woo woo, many seem hesitant to teach it in direct, clear terms because understanding what it is creates goals in your mind and goal-directed thinking is counterproductive to the process. So, the teacher being vague and woo-woo works out great for many students. But, for me, and I expect many people here, it prevented me from even getting started. Now that I have what I think is an understanding of the goals, I’m happy to meditate with a limp rather than not at all.

AlexCoventry 9y ago
> goal-directed thinking is counterproductive to the process This may be a Western influence. Not exactly a corruption, but a tendency to emphasize the "goalless goal" aspects of spiritual practice, because they align with the German Romantic philosophical strains which underlie most of the "woo" between the Enlightenment and modern contact with Buddhism. It's worth keeping in mind that the Buddha's seminal talk was about ending suffering. It's hard to get more goal-oriented than that. And while chasing after a goal is a mild form suffering in its own right, it's hardly the right place to start. Thanissaro has a great book with an extended argument about this, surveying the German Romantic foundations of Western "woo" and their influence on Western teaching of Buddhism, Buddhist Romanticism. > An in-depth study of the pervasive influence of early Romantic thought in shaping the way Buddhism is taught in the West, and of the practical consequences of following the Romantics rather than the Buddha in approaching the problem of suffering and stress. https://www.dhammatalks.org/ebook_index.html#BuddhistRomanticism https://www.dhammatalks.org/ebook_index.html#BuddhistRomanti... It's based on a much shorter essay, "The Roots of Buddhist Romanticism" https://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/thanissaro/rootsofbuddhistromanticism.html https://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/thanissaro/roots... > Many Westerners, when new to Buddhism, are struck by the uncanny familiarity of what seem to be its central concepts: interconnectedness, wholeness, ego-transcendence. But what they may not realize is that the concepts sound familiar because they are familiar. To a large extent, they come not from the Buddha's teachings but from the Dharma gate of Western psychology, through which the Buddha's words have been filtered. They draw less from the root sources of the Dharma than from their own hidden roots in Western culture: the thought of the German Romantics. Another highly relevant essay of his for goal-related practice is "The Agendas of Mindfulness" > ...as described in the Pali texts, meditation is a very pro-active process. It has an agenda and works actively to bring it about https://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/thanissaro/agendas.html https://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/thanissaro/agend...

AlexCoventry 9y ago

> goal-directed thinking is counterproductive to the process This may be a Western influence. Not exactly a corruption, but a tendency to emphasize the "goalless goal" aspects of spiritual practice, because they align with the German Romantic philosophical strains which underlie most of the "woo" between the Enlightenment and modern contact with Buddhism. It's worth keeping in mind that the Buddha's seminal talk was about ending suffering. It's hard to get more goal-oriented than that. And while chasing after a goal is a mild form suffering in its own right, it's hardly the right place to start. Thanissaro has a great book with an extended argument about this, surveying the German Romantic foundations of Western "woo" and their influence on Western teaching of Buddhism, Buddhist Romanticism. > An in-depth study of the pervasive influence of early Romantic thought in shaping the way Buddhism is taught in the West, and of the practical consequences of following the Romantics rather than the Buddha in approaching the problem of suffering and stress. https://www.dhammatalks.org/ebook_index.html#BuddhistRomanticism https://www.dhammatalks.org/ebook_index.html#BuddhistRomanti... It's based on a much shorter essay, "The Roots of Buddhist Romanticism" https://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/thanissaro/rootsofbuddhistromanticism.html https://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/thanissaro/roots... > Many Westerners, when new to Buddhism, are struck by the uncanny familiarity of what seem to be its central concepts: interconnectedness, wholeness, ego-transcendence. But what they may not realize is that the concepts sound familiar because they are familiar. To a large extent, they come not from the Buddha's teachings but from the Dharma gate of Western psychology, through which the Buddha's words have been filtered. They draw less from the root sources of the Dharma than from their own hidden roots in Western culture: the thought of the German Romantics. Another highly relevant essay of his for goal-related practice is "The Agendas of Mindfulness" > ...as described in the Pali texts, meditation is a very pro-active process. It has an agenda and works actively to bring it about https://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/thanissaro/agendas.html https://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/thanissaro/agend...