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> complemented with extreme actions to stop even their very own customers from even repairing their broken products Like what kind of actions? I can go to ifix

> complemented with extreme actions to stop even their very own customers from even repairing their broken products Like what kind of actions? I can go to ifixit.com right now, order parts for my iPhone, order tools to work on my iPhone, and watch detailed instructions about how to repair my iPhone. (or Mac, or iPad, etc.) The products are NOT easy to work on, but I am not aware of any action that Apple has taken against individual customers who want to repair their own products. > let alone upgrade them to a usable state. Personally speaking, I'm still using a 2008 Macbook Pro today because I was able to order and install more RAM (even above the recommended limit), a new SSD, and a new cooling fan.

atonse 9y ago
You can't do that with a 2015 MacBook. Everything is soldered on. Are the iFixit parts genuine? I have no idea.
- beenBoutIT 9y ago
  This is actually much better than their previous designs which had 'replaceable parts' that by design would generally destroy the motherboard when replaced by technically-inclined users or non-Apple repair people. Now there isn't an illusion of repairability bundled with a false sense of defeat upon encountering failure.
  - oarsinsync 9y ago
    I'm not sure it's better that GP wouldn't have been able to do what he did successfully, because other people might have failed thinking they could succeed. Just because some people might fail at certain tasks thinking they could perform aftermarket changes (so long my Palm IIIx and iPhone 3G) doesn't mean all people will fail at these things (wayhey hello new screen on my Thinkpad and significantly improved wifi on my XPS). Meanwhile my MacBook Air now gathers dust and I was forced to fork out significantly more money for a MacBook Pro just to double the RAM from 4GB to 8GB. There's only one winner there (well, arguably two, as I still got a new laptop out of it...)
    - beenBoutIT 9y ago
      It's tragic to see RAM moving in the opposite direction of other positive technologies like USB. Going from being difficult to reuse between devices to fixed and impossible to reuse, making entire devices disposable.
    - Scoundreller 9y ago
      Just part out your MacBook Air. I just parted out a mid-2011 and got about US$600 for it, excluding the useless battery and frayed power cord.
      - geezerjay 9y ago
        Being forced to sell a product in perfectly good computer just because the manufacturer goes to extreme lengths to stop you from even performing the most trivial upgrade ever is not a solution. In fact, that caters to a single party's interests, which is the manufacturer itself. You're being forced by the manufacturer to waste a bigger chunk of your hard-earned money by giving it away to him.
eesmith 9y ago
Actions like fighting right-to-repair bills in many states. While you may have the right to do that yourself, they don't want you to have the right to hire someone else to do it for you. They also don't want you to have the right to get those parts for your iPhone. Apple goes after producers and technicians, and not so much end-users. For one, I think end-users have rights, like the first-sale doctrine, which makes it harder for Apple to do anything to you other than terminate your warranty coverage. Though I think they really would have preferred if they could sue you for jailbreaking an iPhone - they lost that court case.
- snowwrestler 9y ago
  I agree with all that. I wonder though... how is it that I can buy parts from IFixIt? I'm honestly asking--I read the linked story about Norway and I don't see how what iFixIt does is different... except that they don't do the repairs themselves. But it was the parts shipment that Apple objected to. I think the legality of jailbreaking was actually decided by the Library of Congress DMCA exception process.
  - eesmith 9y ago
    You are right, it was not a court case but a LoC exemption. Thanks for correcting my error! iFixit was part of that effort. https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/8q89wb/how-to-fix-everything https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/8q89wb/how-to-fix... describes more about the company's history. I found it interesting. https://es.ifixit.com/Answers/View/121003/The+replacement+batterys+ifixit+sell,+are+they+genuine+Apple+battery https://es.ifixit.com/Answers/View/121003/The+replacement+ba... says (concerning a battery) > The iPhone 4 Battery we sell is made to the same specifications as an Apple OEM part, but cannot be classified as 'OEM' because they are not made by Apple. Apple doesn't like to sell their OEM parts to anyone, so they are extremely hard to find. Our parts are brand new, fully tested, and made to the same quality as Apple OEM parts. They also come with a 6-month warranty."
- wuliwong 9y ago
  I'm just hearing about this "right to repair" thing. It sounds from this article that the "right to repair" also includes forcing Apple to sell their parts to be used by anyone for repair. If that is the case, I think it is going to far. I don't think Apple should be forced to sell their parts to anyone. But I do believe that anyone should be able to repair any item they own or pay anyone else to do it.
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geezerjay 9y ago
> Like what kind of actions? Well.... You can start by reading the news piece that's the source of this discussion. You know, the article on how Apple went to extreme actions to stop even their very own customers from even repairing their broken products or even upgrade them to a usable state.

atonse 9y ago

You can't do that with a 2015 MacBook. Everything is soldered on. Are the iFixit parts genuine? I have no idea.

beenBoutIT 9y ago
This is actually much better than their previous designs which had 'replaceable parts' that by design would generally destroy the motherboard when replaced by technically-inclined users or non-Apple repair people. Now there isn't an illusion of repairability bundled with a false sense of defeat upon encountering failure.
- oarsinsync 9y ago
  I'm not sure it's better that GP wouldn't have been able to do what he did successfully, because other people might have failed thinking they could succeed. Just because some people might fail at certain tasks thinking they could perform aftermarket changes (so long my Palm IIIx and iPhone 3G) doesn't mean all people will fail at these things (wayhey hello new screen on my Thinkpad and significantly improved wifi on my XPS). Meanwhile my MacBook Air now gathers dust and I was forced to fork out significantly more money for a MacBook Pro just to double the RAM from 4GB to 8GB. There's only one winner there (well, arguably two, as I still got a new laptop out of it...)
  - beenBoutIT 9y ago
    It's tragic to see RAM moving in the opposite direction of other positive technologies like USB. Going from being difficult to reuse between devices to fixed and impossible to reuse, making entire devices disposable.
  - Scoundreller 9y ago
    Just part out your MacBook Air. I just parted out a mid-2011 and got about US$600 for it, excluding the useless battery and frayed power cord.
    - geezerjay 9y ago
      Being forced to sell a product in perfectly good computer just because the manufacturer goes to extreme lengths to stop you from even performing the most trivial upgrade ever is not a solution. In fact, that caters to a single party's interests, which is the manufacturer itself. You're being forced by the manufacturer to waste a bigger chunk of your hard-earned money by giving it away to him.

eesmith 9y ago

Actions like fighting right-to-repair bills in many states. While you may have the right to do that yourself, they don't want you to have the right to hire someone else to do it for you. They also don't want you to have the right to get those parts for your iPhone. Apple goes after producers and technicians, and not so much end-users. For one, I think end-users have rights, like the first-sale doctrine, which makes it harder for Apple to do anything to you other than terminate your warranty coverage. Though I think they really would have preferred if they could sue you for jailbreaking an iPhone - they lost that court case.

snowwrestler 9y ago
I agree with all that. I wonder though... how is it that I can buy parts from IFixIt? I'm honestly asking--I read the linked story about Norway and I don't see how what iFixIt does is different... except that they don't do the repairs themselves. But it was the parts shipment that Apple objected to. I think the legality of jailbreaking was actually decided by the Library of Congress DMCA exception process.
- eesmith 9y ago
  You are right, it was not a court case but a LoC exemption. Thanks for correcting my error! iFixit was part of that effort. https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/8q89wb/how-to-fix-everything https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/8q89wb/how-to-fix... describes more about the company's history. I found it interesting. https://es.ifixit.com/Answers/View/121003/The+replacement+batterys+ifixit+sell,+are+they+genuine+Apple+battery https://es.ifixit.com/Answers/View/121003/The+replacement+ba... says (concerning a battery) > The iPhone 4 Battery we sell is made to the same specifications as an Apple OEM part, but cannot be classified as 'OEM' because they are not made by Apple. Apple doesn't like to sell their OEM parts to anyone, so they are extremely hard to find. Our parts are brand new, fully tested, and made to the same quality as Apple OEM parts. They also come with a 6-month warranty."
wuliwong 9y ago
I'm just hearing about this "right to repair" thing. It sounds from this article that the "right to repair" also includes forcing Apple to sell their parts to be used by anyone for repair. If that is the case, I think it is going to far. I don't think Apple should be forced to sell their parts to anyone. But I do believe that anyone should be able to repair any item they own or pay anyone else to do it.

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geezerjay 9y ago

> Like what kind of actions? Well.... You can start by reading the news piece that's the source of this discussion. You know, the article on how Apple went to extreme actions to stop even their very own customers from even repairing their broken products or even upgrade them to a usable state.