4 ms·

7% is not ridiculous at all. twino.eu has been paying 10-13% backed by their own guarantees and a good income stream for several years.

frgtpsswrdlame 9y ago
So from looking at it twino is unsecured consumer lending? That seems pretty risky.
- akvadrako 9y ago
  They charge much higher rates and have a good balance sheet, without much leverage. It’s not likely all their customers default at once, so the risk is lower then most instruments.
  - frgtpsswrdlame 9y ago
    >It’s not likely all their customers default at once, so the risk is lower then most instruments. I mean I would question this. Of course that's true in a good economy but it's not true at all in a bad economy. To invest in this I think you need to ask what actually happens if there is a downturn.
justicezyx 9y ago
Noooooooooo Past performance is not an indication of future.
- solarkraft 9y ago
  Remember Bernard Madoff? Edit: Ran a Ponzi scheme (promised 12% p.a.) from the 1970s til 2008. $64.8 billion of damage.
  - kolpa 9y ago
    So you're saying that the key to success is to get in at the ground floor, and exit after a few years?
    - kjs3 9y ago
      Isn't it always?
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- akvadrako 9y ago
  It’s not speculation - it’s a continuous income stream. Of course loan rates may go down but there is no risk about “performance”.
  - JumpCrisscross 9y ago
    > loan rates may go down but there is no risk about “performance” They can default. Twino is a Latvian LLC [1] that walks back its “guarantee” in section 7.4 of their User Agreement: “TWINO shall not be held liable neither by the Investor, nor by the Assignee, or their legal successors or heirs, or any Third Parties in the event that the Loan Agreement is not performed by the Borrower completely or in any part thereof and if the Claim is not repaid and settled.” If you think you have an investment with “no risk about performance,” you should not be investing your own money. [1] https://www.twino.eu/ws/public/user-agreement-stream?lang=en https://www.twino.eu/ws/public/user-agreement-stream?lang=en
    - akvadrako 9y ago
      Nobody is arguing they can't default; even banks can default. The point is 7% interest isn't absurd.
      - JumpCrisscross 9y ago
        > 7% interest isn't absurd It does require asking intelligent questions. Like what has been the historic default rate amongst TWINO’s borrowers? Is the borrower quality for recent cohorts higher or lower than for earlier cohorts? How might one enforce their claims in a Latvian court? Cryptocurrency gamblers don’t do this. If you’re earning 7% in U.S. dollars or Euros and not reading and thoroughly understanding the prospectus, you’re being a chump. (Not making specific claims regarding TWINO. Seven percent may be reasonable compensation for the risk involved. But claiming there is “no risk about performance” is absurd.)
        akvadrako 9y ago
        It's not a "past performance isn't indicative of future performance" scenario in any reasonable sense. The loans you buy are already sold and it's fixed rate. You are calling the risk of the whole company defaulting "performance" and that's what I disagree with. Their highest rated loans (11-13%) are guaranteed by them; that's quite explicit. The end-borrower default-rate is pretty low which is why they can do it.
cecilpl2 9y ago
This is commonly referred to as "picking up pennies in front of a steamroller".

frgtpsswrdlame 9y ago

So from looking at it twino is unsecured consumer lending? That seems pretty risky.

akvadrako 9y ago
They charge much higher rates and have a good balance sheet, without much leverage. It’s not likely all their customers default at once, so the risk is lower then most instruments.
- frgtpsswrdlame 9y ago
  >It’s not likely all their customers default at once, so the risk is lower then most instruments. I mean I would question this. Of course that's true in a good economy but it's not true at all in a bad economy. To invest in this I think you need to ask what actually happens if there is a downturn.

justicezyx 9y ago

Noooooooooo Past performance is not an indication of future.

solarkraft 9y ago
Remember Bernard Madoff? Edit: Ran a Ponzi scheme (promised 12% p.a.) from the 1970s til 2008. $64.8 billion of damage.
- kolpa 9y ago
  So you're saying that the key to success is to get in at the ground floor, and exit after a few years?
  - kjs3 9y ago
    Isn't it always?
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
akvadrako 9y ago
It’s not speculation - it’s a continuous income stream. Of course loan rates may go down but there is no risk about “performance”.
- JumpCrisscross 9y ago
  > loan rates may go down but there is no risk about “performance” They can default. Twino is a Latvian LLC [1] that walks back its “guarantee” in section 7.4 of their User Agreement: “TWINO shall not be held liable neither by the Investor, nor by the Assignee, or their legal successors or heirs, or any Third Parties in the event that the Loan Agreement is not performed by the Borrower completely or in any part thereof and if the Claim is not repaid and settled.” If you think you have an investment with “no risk about performance,” you should not be investing your own money. [1] https://www.twino.eu/ws/public/user-agreement-stream?lang=en https://www.twino.eu/ws/public/user-agreement-stream?lang=en
  - akvadrako 9y ago
    Nobody is arguing they can't default; even banks can default. The point is 7% interest isn't absurd.
    - JumpCrisscross 9y ago
      > 7% interest isn't absurd It does require asking intelligent questions. Like what has been the historic default rate amongst TWINO’s borrowers? Is the borrower quality for recent cohorts higher or lower than for earlier cohorts? How might one enforce their claims in a Latvian court? Cryptocurrency gamblers don’t do this. If you’re earning 7% in U.S. dollars or Euros and not reading and thoroughly understanding the prospectus, you’re being a chump. (Not making specific claims regarding TWINO. Seven percent may be reasonable compensation for the risk involved. But claiming there is “no risk about performance” is absurd.)
      - akvadrako 9y ago
        It's not a "past performance isn't indicative of future performance" scenario in any reasonable sense. The loans you buy are already sold and it's fixed rate. You are calling the risk of the whole company defaulting "performance" and that's what I disagree with. Their highest rated loans (11-13%) are guaranteed by them; that's quite explicit. The end-borrower default-rate is pretty low which is why they can do it.

cecilpl2 9y ago

This is commonly referred to as "picking up pennies in front of a steamroller".