5 ms·

Couldn't they have written a better headline? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinaman_(term) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinaman_(term)

mechazawa 8y ago
"Chinese Man" would've been better yeah. I had to read it a twice before realizing that it wasn't about a China-themed super hero.
- rahimnathwani 8y ago
  If the headline had read "Chinese man", I would have assumed the incident took place somewhere in the US.
  - anonaccount0413 8y ago
    If it did, then they would have just used "American."
- coldtea 8y ago
  Like Englishman, the eccentric Oxbridge schooled aristocrat who fights crime at nights? We use *man for all kinds of ethnicities, Chinaman or China man is no different.
  - anonaccount0413 8y ago
    No, that hero would be called Englandman.
jgrahamc 8y ago
Ha! I had precisely the same thought: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16829083 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16829083
toomanybeersies 8y ago
It looks similar, but it is subtly different. It's not uncommon for headlines to use "{{location}} man" to describe what country an event happened in. This has spawned the amusing FloridaMan meme: https://www.reddit.com/r/FloridaMan/ https://www.reddit.com/r/FloridaMan/
rahimnathwani 8y ago
There's a space between the two words. 'China man' seems like a good way to suggest both the nationality and gender of the person, and the location of the incident, towards the beginning of the headline.
aaronharnly 8y ago
That’s a headline style called the “noun pile”, at which the BBC excels. This one is tame by their standards (but I agree it’s jarring to put “China” and “Man” together that way). The Language Log describes them here: http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=1206 http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=1206 And lots more examples: http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?cat=277 http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?cat=277 Choice examples: “China Ferrari sex orgy death crash” “Brighton photo studio jobs misery”
- lioeters 8y ago
  Thanks, I learned something new today: "noun pile-ups" allow the insertion of many key words into a small slot. It's something I've noticed unconsciously, but now I can recognize it. Interesting that the practice is more prevalent in the British press.
ybrah 8y ago
Englishman Irishman Chinaman ??
- Cthulhu_ 8y ago
  Logically it would've been Chineseman then, but, I'm no grammar expert.
  - coldtea 8y ago
    Natural language doesn't always follow the same structural patterns, even for the same meanings. What's better to the ear or shorter often prevails over consistency.
- anonaccount0413 8y ago
  Englandman. Irelandman. Chineseman.
coldtea 8y ago
>Although the term has no negative connotations in older dictionaries,[1][2] and the usage of such parallel compound terms as Englishman, Frenchman and Irishman[3] remain unobjectionable,[4] the term Chinaman is noted as offensive by modern dictionaries and is no longer the preferred nomenclature In other words, BS creating an issue when there's none. Chinaman is fine.
- rxhernandez 8y ago
  Yes, we should also start calling black people a term they used to be called because it used to be okay. Why is it that some people lack the miniscule amount of decency required to respect a person's or group's preferences on what they like to be called? What kind of insignificant life does someone have to lead to have the time or energy to question a small change in vocabulary that relates to respecting another's preferences?
  - coldtea 8y ago
    >Yes, we should also start calling black people a term they used to be called because it used to be okay. Actually we're not all US-based here, and we don't have any historical baggage with our black people like that. Plus, instead of worrying about words, maybe people should focus on stopping cop shootings, mass incarcerations, red-lining and other, non-trivial matters, affecting black people? And yes, one does preclude the other. One is hypocritical theater, the other is actual change -- opportunity costs and all. >What kind of insignificant life does someone have to lead to have the time or energy to question a small change in vocabulary that relates to respecting another's preferences? There was no "respecting another's preferences". It was mostly due to people having insignificant lives (sic) and compensating by being worried about words on behalf of another. Nobody actually asked the Chinese...
  - needToSay 8y ago
    You should travel more American centric cis scum
- Cvbncvbn 8y ago
  The issue is that Chinaman became a slur and was also used to refer to all people from Asia.
FabHK 8y ago
"Chinaman" hasn't been the preferred nomenclature since at least 1998 (when The Big Lebowsky came out). Here, as others have noted, it's China man, though. > The chinaman is not the issue here, Dude. I'm talking about drawing a line in the sand, Dude. Across this line, you DO NOT... Also, Dude, chinaman is not the preferred nomenclature. https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0118715/quotes https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0118715/quotes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYOzUHnPJvU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYOzUHnPJvU

mechazawa 8y ago

"Chinese Man" would've been better yeah. I had to read it a twice before realizing that it wasn't about a China-themed super hero.

rahimnathwani 8y ago
If the headline had read "Chinese man", I would have assumed the incident took place somewhere in the US.
- anonaccount0413 8y ago
  If it did, then they would have just used "American."
coldtea 8y ago
Like Englishman, the eccentric Oxbridge schooled aristocrat who fights crime at nights? We use *man for all kinds of ethnicities, Chinaman or China man is no different.
- anonaccount0413 8y ago
  No, that hero would be called Englandman.

jgrahamc 8y ago

Ha! I had precisely the same thought: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16829083 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16829083

toomanybeersies 8y ago

It looks similar, but it is subtly different. It's not uncommon for headlines to use "{{location}} man" to describe what country an event happened in. This has spawned the amusing FloridaMan meme: https://www.reddit.com/r/FloridaMan/ https://www.reddit.com/r/FloridaMan/

rahimnathwani 8y ago

There's a space between the two words. 'China man' seems like a good way to suggest both the nationality and gender of the person, and the location of the incident, towards the beginning of the headline.

aaronharnly 8y ago

That’s a headline style called the “noun pile”, at which the BBC excels. This one is tame by their standards (but I agree it’s jarring to put “China” and “Man” together that way). The Language Log describes them here: http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=1206 http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=1206 And lots more examples: http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?cat=277 http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?cat=277 Choice examples: “China Ferrari sex orgy death crash” “Brighton photo studio jobs misery”

lioeters 8y ago
Thanks, I learned something new today: "noun pile-ups" allow the insertion of many key words into a small slot. It's something I've noticed unconsciously, but now I can recognize it. Interesting that the practice is more prevalent in the British press.

ybrah 8y ago

Englishman Irishman Chinaman ??

Cthulhu_ 8y ago
Logically it would've been Chineseman then, but, I'm no grammar expert.
- coldtea 8y ago
  Natural language doesn't always follow the same structural patterns, even for the same meanings. What's better to the ear or shorter often prevails over consistency.
anonaccount0413 8y ago
Englandman. Irelandman. Chineseman.

coldtea 8y ago

>Although the term has no negative connotations in older dictionaries,[1][2] and the usage of such parallel compound terms as Englishman, Frenchman and Irishman[3] remain unobjectionable,[4] the term Chinaman is noted as offensive by modern dictionaries and is no longer the preferred nomenclature In other words, BS creating an issue when there's none. Chinaman is fine.

rxhernandez 8y ago
Yes, we should also start calling black people a term they used to be called because it used to be okay. Why is it that some people lack the miniscule amount of decency required to respect a person's or group's preferences on what they like to be called? What kind of insignificant life does someone have to lead to have the time or energy to question a small change in vocabulary that relates to respecting another's preferences?
- coldtea 8y ago
  >Yes, we should also start calling black people a term they used to be called because it used to be okay. Actually we're not all US-based here, and we don't have any historical baggage with our black people like that. Plus, instead of worrying about words, maybe people should focus on stopping cop shootings, mass incarcerations, red-lining and other, non-trivial matters, affecting black people? And yes, one does preclude the other. One is hypocritical theater, the other is actual change -- opportunity costs and all. >What kind of insignificant life does someone have to lead to have the time or energy to question a small change in vocabulary that relates to respecting another's preferences? There was no "respecting another's preferences". It was mostly due to people having insignificant lives (sic) and compensating by being worried about words on behalf of another. Nobody actually asked the Chinese...
- needToSay 8y ago
  You should travel more American centric cis scum
Cvbncvbn 8y ago
The issue is that Chinaman became a slur and was also used to refer to all people from Asia.

FabHK 8y ago

"Chinaman" hasn't been the preferred nomenclature since at least 1998 (when The Big Lebowsky came out). Here, as others have noted, it's China man, though. > The chinaman is not the issue here, Dude. I'm talking about drawing a line in the sand, Dude. Across this line, you DO NOT... Also, Dude, chinaman is not the preferred nomenclature. https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0118715/quotes https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0118715/quotes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYOzUHnPJvU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYOzUHnPJvU