3 ms·

Well, one of the things I hope we get to see with projects like Fuchsia and Redox is what the performance difference is against a monolithic kernel like Linux,

Well, one of the things I hope we get to see with projects like Fuchsia and Redox is what the performance difference is against a monolithic kernel like Linux, if/when they have been well optimized.

Karunamon 9y ago
I don't think this will be a fair comparison, since most of Android's performance woes are at the feet of running on a JVM.
- pjmlp 9y ago
  ART is a thing since Android 5.0 and it has become quite good. Even the parts written in straight C and C++ code have issues in performance woes on Android, as everyone that has wanted to do real time audio on Android painfully knows. The whole architecture has been a mess.
  - bitmapbrother 9y ago
    Speaking of performance issues and architecture messes, have you ever tried real time audio on Windows Phone? The absence of real time audio apps speaks volumes.
    - pjmlp 9y ago
      I was missing your blind Google advocacy and Microsoft hate. Did they fired you? If you had any Android developer experience, you would surely know that Google had a few failed attempts at real time audio, needed help from Samsung to implement them, and the final API was C only, with devs asking for a C++ one, wich was later dumped on github as side project and isn't part of the official NDK APIs, but alas you don't.
      - 0xFFC 9y ago
        >If you had any Android developer experience, you would surely know that Google had a few failed attempts at real time audio, needed help from Samsung to implement them, and the final API was C only, with devs asking for a C++ one, wich was later dumped on github as side project and isn't part of the official NDK APIs, but alas you don't. Would you mind to explain what happened completely? I am very curious about it. Thank you so much ;)
        pjmlp 9y ago
        Sure. Originally Android only had the Java media APIs, with a quite complex state. https://developer.android.com/reference/android/media/MediaPlayer.html https://developer.android.com/reference/android/media/MediaP... Android 2.3 introduced OpenSL ES into the NDK and Android 4.0 got OpenMAX. All of them weren't up to the game of realtime audio due to the Android architecture. http://superpowered.com/androidaudiopathlatency http://superpowered.com/androidaudiopathlatency https://nsr.cse.buffalo.edu/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/rtdroid-sound-jtres16.pdf https://nsr.cse.buffalo.edu/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/rtdro... https://www.androidauthority.com/android-6-0-marshmallow-audio-latency-670727/ https://www.androidauthority.com/android-6-0-marshmallow-aud... There are plenty of other articles online when you search for audio issues on Android. There was even a Google IO 2013 talk about it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3kfEeMZ65c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3kfEeMZ65c Meanwhile Samsung had customized their Android versions to properly support real time audio and offered an SDK for their handsets. http://developer.samsung.com/galaxy/professional-audio http://developer.samsung.com/galaxy/professional-audio At Google IO 2016 the problem was again discussed, with the Samsung team from Professional Audio being called on stage to discuss their collaboration. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2ZDp-eNrh4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2ZDp-eNrh4 Finally last year at Google IO 2017, the new real time audio was announced, as C only lib. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0BPXZIvG-Q https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0BPXZIvG-Q https://developer.android.com/ndk/guides/audio/index.html https://developer.android.com/ndk/guides/audio/index.html The announced C++ wrapper ended up being an external project on github, detached from the NDK, that you need to integrate yourself, without any guarantees how long Google will care to maintain it. Oh, to make things even better, it is already clear from Android P draft documentation that new audio APIs are on their way.
      - bitmapbrother 9y ago
        >I was missing your blind Google advocacy and Microsoft hate. Did they fired you? I'm just trying to correct all of the misinformation you like to post about Google and Android. >If you had any Android developer experience, you would surely know that Google had a few failed attempts at real time audio, needed help from Samsung to implement them. Unfortunately, your lack of Android development experience and your lack of exposure to development on Samsung devices has caused you to be disingenuous once again. Samsung didn't help Google nor did they contribute any of their code to AOSP. They implemented their own proprietary audio solution called SAPA. Unfortunately, it was limited to their platform and the audio latency wasn't very good in comparison to the iPhone. >and the final API was C only with devs asking for a C++ one, wich was later dumped on github as side project and isn't part of the official NDK APIs, but alas you don't. AAudio is indeed coded in C, but at least you can use the Oboe C++ wrapper. What were the low latency audio solutions for Windows phone again? Oh that's right, there weren't any. No wonder there were no low latency audio apps on that platform.
        pjmlp 9y ago
        Dear Google Developer Advocate, my Android experience goes all the way back to Froyo.
        bitmapbrother 8y ago
        Can you can link me to the Play store apps you've developed?
- IshKebab 9y ago
  You can run native code on Fuchsia (and Android for that matter). It should be fairly trivial to do some benchmarks.

Well, one of the things I hope we get to see with projects like Fuchsia and Redox is what the performance difference is against a monolithic kernel like Linux, if/when they have been well optimized.

Karunamon 9y ago

I don't think this will be a fair comparison, since most of Android's performance woes are at the feet of running on a JVM.

pjmlp 9y ago
ART is a thing since Android 5.0 and it has become quite good. Even the parts written in straight C and C++ code have issues in performance woes on Android, as everyone that has wanted to do real time audio on Android painfully knows. The whole architecture has been a mess.
- bitmapbrother 9y ago
  Speaking of performance issues and architecture messes, have you ever tried real time audio on Windows Phone? The absence of real time audio apps speaks volumes.
  - pjmlp 9y ago
    I was missing your blind Google advocacy and Microsoft hate. Did they fired you? If you had any Android developer experience, you would surely know that Google had a few failed attempts at real time audio, needed help from Samsung to implement them, and the final API was C only, with devs asking for a C++ one, wich was later dumped on github as side project and isn't part of the official NDK APIs, but alas you don't.
    - 0xFFC 9y ago
      >If you had any Android developer experience, you would surely know that Google had a few failed attempts at real time audio, needed help from Samsung to implement them, and the final API was C only, with devs asking for a C++ one, wich was later dumped on github as side project and isn't part of the official NDK APIs, but alas you don't. Would you mind to explain what happened completely? I am very curious about it. Thank you so much ;)
      - pjmlp 9y ago
        Sure. Originally Android only had the Java media APIs, with a quite complex state. https://developer.android.com/reference/android/media/MediaPlayer.html https://developer.android.com/reference/android/media/MediaP... Android 2.3 introduced OpenSL ES into the NDK and Android 4.0 got OpenMAX. All of them weren't up to the game of realtime audio due to the Android architecture. http://superpowered.com/androidaudiopathlatency http://superpowered.com/androidaudiopathlatency https://nsr.cse.buffalo.edu/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/rtdroid-sound-jtres16.pdf https://nsr.cse.buffalo.edu/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/rtdro... https://www.androidauthority.com/android-6-0-marshmallow-audio-latency-670727/ https://www.androidauthority.com/android-6-0-marshmallow-aud... There are plenty of other articles online when you search for audio issues on Android. There was even a Google IO 2013 talk about it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3kfEeMZ65c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3kfEeMZ65c Meanwhile Samsung had customized their Android versions to properly support real time audio and offered an SDK for their handsets. http://developer.samsung.com/galaxy/professional-audio http://developer.samsung.com/galaxy/professional-audio At Google IO 2016 the problem was again discussed, with the Samsung team from Professional Audio being called on stage to discuss their collaboration. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2ZDp-eNrh4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2ZDp-eNrh4 Finally last year at Google IO 2017, the new real time audio was announced, as C only lib. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0BPXZIvG-Q https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0BPXZIvG-Q https://developer.android.com/ndk/guides/audio/index.html https://developer.android.com/ndk/guides/audio/index.html The announced C++ wrapper ended up being an external project on github, detached from the NDK, that you need to integrate yourself, without any guarantees how long Google will care to maintain it. Oh, to make things even better, it is already clear from Android P draft documentation that new audio APIs are on their way.
    - bitmapbrother 9y ago
      >I was missing your blind Google advocacy and Microsoft hate. Did they fired you? I'm just trying to correct all of the misinformation you like to post about Google and Android. >If you had any Android developer experience, you would surely know that Google had a few failed attempts at real time audio, needed help from Samsung to implement them. Unfortunately, your lack of Android development experience and your lack of exposure to development on Samsung devices has caused you to be disingenuous once again. Samsung didn't help Google nor did they contribute any of their code to AOSP. They implemented their own proprietary audio solution called SAPA. Unfortunately, it was limited to their platform and the audio latency wasn't very good in comparison to the iPhone. >and the final API was C only with devs asking for a C++ one, wich was later dumped on github as side project and isn't part of the official NDK APIs, but alas you don't. AAudio is indeed coded in C, but at least you can use the Oboe C++ wrapper. What were the low latency audio solutions for Windows phone again? Oh that's right, there weren't any. No wonder there were no low latency audio apps on that platform.
      - pjmlp 9y ago
        Dear Google Developer Advocate, my Android experience goes all the way back to Froyo.
        bitmapbrother 8y ago
        Can you can link me to the Play store apps you've developed?
IshKebab 9y ago
You can run native code on Fuchsia (and Android for that matter). It should be fairly trivial to do some benchmarks.