19 ms·

Librem 5 Docs

120 points by petethomas 9y ago

craftyguy 9y ago
Here's their blog post that provides some context around these documents: https://puri.sm/posts/librem5-progress-report-10/ https://puri.sm/posts/librem5-progress-report-10/
- benchaney 9y ago
  I like that they have a head of documentation. Good documentation is so important for open source projects, but most projects don’t have it.
  - mulmen 9y ago
    Postgres has never failed to amaze me in the documentation department. It is a refreshing exception to the rule.
    - peatmoss 9y ago
      While we’re highlighting quality examples, I’d like to call out the OpenBSD man pages for being superb.
    - nathell 9y ago
      And SQLite. And, on the more hip side, re-frame – Mike Thompson's writing has a personal, witty style.
moosingin3space 9y ago
While I'm very enthusiastic about the Librem 5, I think it would be better if they recommended a non-C language for app development. Gnome Builder, the IDE they recommend, has support for Vala, Rust, and Python, all of which should provide a much better developer experience, not to mention should enable more reliable apps.
- striking 9y ago
  Less people know Vala than C, the Qt crate for Rust is some autogenerated thing that doesn't look very well-supported (not sure about GTK), and Python might not be the right choice for an embedded platform. I'm fine with letting the platform mature a little before the scope of the project is broadened.
  - steveklabnik 9y ago
    GTK is re-writing bits in Rust, so it’s a pretty robust option overall. Lots of work left to do!
    - shmerl 9y ago
      Is Qt with Rust usable already, or it's still very experimental?
      - steveklabnik 9y ago
        I don't have personal experience, but my understanding is that GTK is much easier since it's in C; QT makes use of some C++ features like inheritance that don't have a direct analogue in Rust that makes it hard. I've heard of several people doing things, but am not sure there's a particular go-to amazing solution at the moment.
        shmerl 9y ago
        The last time I looked into it, there was this project: https://phabricator.kde.org/source/rust-qt-binding-generator/ https://phabricator.kde.org/source/rust-qt-binding-generator... But it was in the prototype stage then.
    - pjmlp 9y ago
      I only dabbled with Gtk-rs for a bit, and Rust does not really fit my UI/UX workflows, but I would still suggest as major improvement a better way to being able to reference struct fields from callbacks without the current Option<Rc<>> workarounds.
shmerl 9y ago
How is OpenGL support with Etnaviv progressing? For KWin to work, it will need some usable form. I wonder if anyone is planning to work on Vulkan support for it too.
- robert_foss 9y ago
  OpenGL support is good now, and still seeing very active development.
cmsimike 9y ago
I've always had an iPhone (since 3g) and recently picked up an Android phone for testing, and played with that. While I can't really complain about either phone, all I've really wanted is Linux on my phone. This is the phone I want. The appeal of Linux on the phone is too much for me. As long as it can make and receive calls and somehow deal with SMS, I can take care of the rest. I've entertained the idea of building a PiPhone [0] and trying it out for a few days. [0] http://www.davidhunt.ie/piphone-a-raspberry-pi-based-smartphone/ http://www.davidhunt.ie/piphone-a-raspberry-pi-based-smartph...
- MrMember 9y ago
  Linux on a phone (true Linux) is like my holy grail device. If it's able to seamlessly transition between a "desktop" mode when docked and a "phone" mode when not, even better. I have a Gemini PDA on order (dual boots Android and Linux) which is close but not quite there. Maybe 2019 will be the year of the Linux phone.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - teekert 9y ago
    Yeah I sometimes really wonder where Ubuntu would have gotten if they'd held on for another year. And If they would have produced a simple but nice dock... But I guess you and me are part of a very small group. I feel I have that more often, I also loved my Pebble Time Steel and I'm still waiting for a good quality ARM notebook (with Dell XPS build quality but much cheaper) which could run Linux.
    - madez 9y ago
      I also think it's a pity that Canonical dropped the Ubuntu phone. Clearly, there was big interest in such a device.
    - swiley 9y ago
      The problem with the ubuntu phone is that they built a special phone UI. None of the GUI desktop software ran and neither did software from any other OS. On top of that the battery life was awful.
rtpg 9y ago
I've been following the Librem. Interesting stuff. I am a bit worried about this thing being very overpowered and just big. Like a huge screen and the works. But this is basically the same as every top-end Android + Apple phone? I would love to see a real competitor to the iPhone SE. Not top of the line but very performant at its tasks. And 4 inches. Not sure if this can be achieved if everything is being designed for almost-phablets.
- solarkraft 9y ago
  I own an Xperia X compact. They basically just killed what the line stands for with the newest models, but this phone is still pretty neat. Got mine for just about 250 Euros. I think that's good competition to the SE.
proaralyst 9y ago
I'd really like one of these but I don't foresee it being able to run Whatsapp, which all my friends and family use.
- sametmax 9y ago
  Can't all your friends and family also send and receive text message ? Apart from huge media file, there is not much difference.
  - algo_cheese 9y ago
    There is an another big difference: groups
    - sametmax 9y ago
      Fair enough. I forgot about this because I hate those so much. I mute all my groups on telegram/discord/slack and only go there when I'm pinged.
    - primitur 9y ago
      Isn't the point that we wouldn't need app vendors to present these things, if the OS were a little more intelligently exposed to the user, who is expected to own it and not just use it? I think there is something about a "Linux phone" which makes apps like WhatsApp, and so on .. quite obsolete. These apps fix holes in iOS/Android - they extend the features of what should be, operating system functions. I find it repugnant that I have, for example, ~15 apps that basically do the same thing, organized in a folder, and which I maintain as a common suite of messaging inboxes. This, to me, indicates that the OS is not doing something it should be doing, intrinsically. Yes, it means eventually deleting all those competing protocols - and independently weak sources of dataleak - and putting it all back under the users control. With a Linux-based phone/communications device, isn't it going to be the case that the open nature of Linux ecosystems is going to have that sort of effect? i.e. - the user really is in control of their machine, and thus their own personal data. I predict that there will be an IPFS'ish revolution on Libre, when it gets out there, which will mean that the one place vendors should set up shop, is the ol' SMS gateway. 'ipfs pubsub sub fridaynightcrew && ipfs pubsub pub fridaynightcrew "wheres the party?"' is but a gateway from being accessible by existing users, of the aforementioned ~15 messaging apps ..

120 points by petethomas 9y ago

Here's their blog post that provides some context around these documents: https://puri.sm/posts/librem5-progress-report-10/ https://puri.sm/posts/librem5-progress-report-10/

benchaney 9y ago
I like that they have a head of documentation. Good documentation is so important for open source projects, but most projects don’t have it.
- mulmen 9y ago
  Postgres has never failed to amaze me in the documentation department. It is a refreshing exception to the rule.
  - peatmoss 9y ago
    While we’re highlighting quality examples, I’d like to call out the OpenBSD man pages for being superb.
  - nathell 9y ago
    And SQLite. And, on the more hip side, re-frame – Mike Thompson's writing has a personal, witty style.

moosingin3space 9y ago

While I'm very enthusiastic about the Librem 5, I think it would be better if they recommended a non-C language for app development. Gnome Builder, the IDE they recommend, has support for Vala, Rust, and Python, all of which should provide a much better developer experience, not to mention should enable more reliable apps.

striking 9y ago
Less people know Vala than C, the Qt crate for Rust is some autogenerated thing that doesn't look very well-supported (not sure about GTK), and Python might not be the right choice for an embedded platform. I'm fine with letting the platform mature a little before the scope of the project is broadened.
- steveklabnik 9y ago
  GTK is re-writing bits in Rust, so it’s a pretty robust option overall. Lots of work left to do!
  - shmerl 9y ago
    Is Qt with Rust usable already, or it's still very experimental?
    - steveklabnik 9y ago
      I don't have personal experience, but my understanding is that GTK is much easier since it's in C; QT makes use of some C++ features like inheritance that don't have a direct analogue in Rust that makes it hard. I've heard of several people doing things, but am not sure there's a particular go-to amazing solution at the moment.
      - shmerl 9y ago
        The last time I looked into it, there was this project: https://phabricator.kde.org/source/rust-qt-binding-generator/ https://phabricator.kde.org/source/rust-qt-binding-generator... But it was in the prototype stage then.
  - pjmlp 9y ago
    I only dabbled with Gtk-rs for a bit, and Rust does not really fit my UI/UX workflows, but I would still suggest as major improvement a better way to being able to reference struct fields from callbacks without the current Option<Rc<>> workarounds.

shmerl 9y ago

How is OpenGL support with Etnaviv progressing? For KWin to work, it will need some usable form. I wonder if anyone is planning to work on Vulkan support for it too.

robert_foss 9y ago
OpenGL support is good now, and still seeing very active development.

cmsimike 9y ago

I've always had an iPhone (since 3g) and recently picked up an Android phone for testing, and played with that. While I can't really complain about either phone, all I've really wanted is Linux on my phone. This is the phone I want. The appeal of Linux on the phone is too much for me. As long as it can make and receive calls and somehow deal with SMS, I can take care of the rest. I've entertained the idea of building a PiPhone [0] and trying it out for a few days. [0] http://www.davidhunt.ie/piphone-a-raspberry-pi-based-smartphone/ http://www.davidhunt.ie/piphone-a-raspberry-pi-based-smartph...

MrMember 9y ago
Linux on a phone (true Linux) is like my holy grail device. If it's able to seamlessly transition between a "desktop" mode when docked and a "phone" mode when not, even better. I have a Gemini PDA on order (dual boots Android and Linux) which is close but not quite there. Maybe 2019 will be the year of the Linux phone.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- teekert 9y ago
  Yeah I sometimes really wonder where Ubuntu would have gotten if they'd held on for another year. And If they would have produced a simple but nice dock... But I guess you and me are part of a very small group. I feel I have that more often, I also loved my Pebble Time Steel and I'm still waiting for a good quality ARM notebook (with Dell XPS build quality but much cheaper) which could run Linux.
  - madez 9y ago
    I also think it's a pity that Canonical dropped the Ubuntu phone. Clearly, there was big interest in such a device.
  - swiley 9y ago
    The problem with the ubuntu phone is that they built a special phone UI. None of the GUI desktop software ran and neither did software from any other OS. On top of that the battery life was awful.

rtpg 9y ago

I've been following the Librem. Interesting stuff. I am a bit worried about this thing being very overpowered and just big. Like a huge screen and the works. But this is basically the same as every top-end Android + Apple phone? I would love to see a real competitor to the iPhone SE. Not top of the line but very performant at its tasks. And 4 inches. Not sure if this can be achieved if everything is being designed for almost-phablets.

solarkraft 9y ago
I own an Xperia X compact. They basically just killed what the line stands for with the newest models, but this phone is still pretty neat. Got mine for just about 250 Euros. I think that's good competition to the SE.

proaralyst 9y ago

I'd really like one of these but I don't foresee it being able to run Whatsapp, which all my friends and family use.

sametmax 9y ago
Can't all your friends and family also send and receive text message ? Apart from huge media file, there is not much difference.
- algo_cheese 9y ago
  There is an another big difference: groups
  - sametmax 9y ago
    Fair enough. I forgot about this because I hate those so much. I mute all my groups on telegram/discord/slack and only go there when I'm pinged.
  - primitur 9y ago
    Isn't the point that we wouldn't need app vendors to present these things, if the OS were a little more intelligently exposed to the user, who is expected to own it and not just use it? I think there is something about a "Linux phone" which makes apps like WhatsApp, and so on .. quite obsolete. These apps fix holes in iOS/Android - they extend the features of what should be, operating system functions. I find it repugnant that I have, for example, ~15 apps that basically do the same thing, organized in a folder, and which I maintain as a common suite of messaging inboxes. This, to me, indicates that the OS is not doing something it should be doing, intrinsically. Yes, it means eventually deleting all those competing protocols - and independently weak sources of dataleak - and putting it all back under the users control. With a Linux-based phone/communications device, isn't it going to be the case that the open nature of Linux ecosystems is going to have that sort of effect? i.e. - the user really is in control of their machine, and thus their own personal data. I predict that there will be an IPFS'ish revolution on Libre, when it gets out there, which will mean that the one place vendors should set up shop, is the ol' SMS gateway. 'ipfs pubsub sub fridaynightcrew && ipfs pubsub pub fridaynightcrew "wheres the party?"' is but a gateway from being accessible by existing users, of the aforementioned ~15 messaging apps ..