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I'm enthusiastic about Fuchsia, i really think there is a lot to gain by breaking with the old conventions, especially when you look at what is hindering true r

I'm enthusiastic about Fuchsia, i really think there is a lot to gain by breaking with the old conventions, especially when you look at what is hindering true realtime computation approaches. As a nice byproduct Google has a hedge against Linus dying and his replacement being incompetent at managing the community.

hawski 9y ago
Is Google actually good at community collaboration? I honestly don't know. But I would imagine that they require CLA and that would hinder the community. It may be a big problem when BDFL dies if there is no blessed successor, but what is a greater trade off?
- endymi0n 9y ago
  I must admit I find the development of Kubernetes extremely well organized fir the sheer size of the project.
  - dankohn1 9y ago
    Google did a great job starting the Kubernetes community, but they then contributed the project to CNCF (which Google also helped launch). Google remains the top contributor to Kubernetes, but even as their contributions remain substantial, their % of the total contributions is going down, due to the large number of other organizations now backing Kubernetes. https://k8s.devstats.cncf.io/d/8/companies-statistics-repository-groups?orgId=1 https://k8s.devstats.cncf.io/d/8/companies-statistics-reposi... (Disclosure: I'm executive director of CNCF. We also build that DevStats tool.)
- csours 9y ago
  I think the point is, they don't have to be.
- jrockway 9y ago
  I think CLA is pretty standard for any open source project. I think the first one I ever signed was for Emacs. Emacs has done pretty well and the CLA doesn't seem to be putting many people off from contributing.
  - rrcaptain 9y ago
    I imagine that it makes any potential litigation or dispute much simpler. Even if the license is FOSS, any sort of litigation could have hundreds or thousands of parties involved.
partycoder 9y ago
One of the core abilities of Linus is knowing when to say no (the how is more debatable).
jandrese 9y ago
Wouldn't the hedge against an incompetent Linus replacement just be a fork of the kernel?
jandrese 9y ago
Right now it kind of reminds me of BeOS, which could do absolutely incredible concurrent realtime low latency media processing but was absolute torture to get a proper Web Browser working. The problem with legacy support is that it drags in the braindamage you were trying to avoid by rewriting the OS in the first place. But without legacy support it's almost impossible to grow beyond the toy OS stage. It's the whole "So, what do I do with it?" factor.
- neuronexmachina 9y ago
  A couple of former BeOS folks are actually working on Fuchsia: Travis Geiselbrecht and Brian Swetland.
  - agildehaus 9y ago
    Travis Geiselbrecht is responsible for NewOS (http://newos.org/ http://newos.org/). The kernel in Haiku, the open-source BeOS recreation, was forked from NewOS' kernel.
  - abqwe 9y ago
    Some logs from Travis Geiselbrecht in Haiku IRC channel about Fuchsia.[1][2] Also looks like Fuchsia barrowing some code from Haiku.[3] [1] https://discuss.haiku-os.org/t/fuchsia-a-new-google-kernel-created-by-beos-developers/4161/2 https://discuss.haiku-os.org/t/fuchsia-a-new-google-kernel-c... [2] https://echelog.com/logs/browse/haiku/1471125600 https://echelog.com/logs/browse/haiku/1471125600 [3] https://discuss.haiku-os.org/t/fuchsia-a-new-google-kernel-created-by-beos-developers/4161/5 https://discuss.haiku-os.org/t/fuchsia-a-new-google-kernel-c...
- jjrh 9y ago
  I watched a BeOS demo video ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BsVydyC8ZGQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BsVydyC8ZGQ ) the other day and some of that stuff is /still/ impressive.
  - jandrese 9y ago
beenBoutIT 9y ago
Isn't there a way Linus could do what Debian did and ensure that the project lives on regardless of who's in charge?
- dingo_bat 9y ago
  That would be easy, but ensuring the same level of quality would need someone who thinks like Linus about these things.

hawski 9y ago

Is Google actually good at community collaboration? I honestly don't know. But I would imagine that they require CLA and that would hinder the community. It may be a big problem when BDFL dies if there is no blessed successor, but what is a greater trade off?

endymi0n 9y ago
I must admit I find the development of Kubernetes extremely well organized fir the sheer size of the project.
- dankohn1 9y ago
  Google did a great job starting the Kubernetes community, but they then contributed the project to CNCF (which Google also helped launch). Google remains the top contributor to Kubernetes, but even as their contributions remain substantial, their % of the total contributions is going down, due to the large number of other organizations now backing Kubernetes. https://k8s.devstats.cncf.io/d/8/companies-statistics-repository-groups?orgId=1 https://k8s.devstats.cncf.io/d/8/companies-statistics-reposi... (Disclosure: I'm executive director of CNCF. We also build that DevStats tool.)
csours 9y ago
I think the point is, they don't have to be.
jrockway 9y ago
I think CLA is pretty standard for any open source project. I think the first one I ever signed was for Emacs. Emacs has done pretty well and the CLA doesn't seem to be putting many people off from contributing.
- rrcaptain 9y ago
  I imagine that it makes any potential litigation or dispute much simpler. Even if the license is FOSS, any sort of litigation could have hundreds or thousands of parties involved.

partycoder 9y ago

One of the core abilities of Linus is knowing when to say no (the how is more debatable).

jandrese 9y ago

Wouldn't the hedge against an incompetent Linus replacement just be a fork of the kernel?

jandrese 9y ago

Right now it kind of reminds me of BeOS, which could do absolutely incredible concurrent realtime low latency media processing but was absolute torture to get a proper Web Browser working. The problem with legacy support is that it drags in the braindamage you were trying to avoid by rewriting the OS in the first place. But without legacy support it's almost impossible to grow beyond the toy OS stage. It's the whole "So, what do I do with it?" factor.

neuronexmachina 9y ago
A couple of former BeOS folks are actually working on Fuchsia: Travis Geiselbrecht and Brian Swetland.
- agildehaus 9y ago
  Travis Geiselbrecht is responsible for NewOS (http://newos.org/ http://newos.org/). The kernel in Haiku, the open-source BeOS recreation, was forked from NewOS' kernel.
- abqwe 9y ago
  Some logs from Travis Geiselbrecht in Haiku IRC channel about Fuchsia.[1][2] Also looks like Fuchsia barrowing some code from Haiku.[3] [1] https://discuss.haiku-os.org/t/fuchsia-a-new-google-kernel-created-by-beos-developers/4161/2 https://discuss.haiku-os.org/t/fuchsia-a-new-google-kernel-c... [2] https://echelog.com/logs/browse/haiku/1471125600 https://echelog.com/logs/browse/haiku/1471125600 [3] https://discuss.haiku-os.org/t/fuchsia-a-new-google-kernel-created-by-beos-developers/4161/5 https://discuss.haiku-os.org/t/fuchsia-a-new-google-kernel-c...
jjrh 9y ago
I watched a BeOS demo video ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BsVydyC8ZGQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BsVydyC8ZGQ ) the other day and some of that stuff is /still/ impressive.
- jandrese 9y ago

beenBoutIT 9y ago

Isn't there a way Linus could do what Debian did and ensure that the project lives on regardless of who's in charge?

dingo_bat 9y ago
That would be easy, but ensuring the same level of quality would need someone who thinks like Linus about these things.