5 ms·

You can thank full stack developers for that

chiefalchemist 9y ago
Them, or the manager that hired them? If no one up the chain brings on a DBA what are they supposed to do? I hear ya. But this is as much a symptom of naive (and budget stretched) leadership as it is of the hands on deck.
- olalonde 9y ago
  Your solution costs 150K$/year while theirs took a weekend and saves 50K$/year...
  - chiefalchemist 9y ago
    Allow me to clarify. 1) It took a weekend to complete. The friction was building for far longer. There's a cost to that, esp if it effects customer satisfaction and retention. They didn't refactor for fun, did they :) How many dev teams aren't so lucky? Is this article a no choice outlier, or a best practice? 2) My comment wasn't directed at the article but on another comment that blamed the developers. These problems should be owned by ownership / leadership / management more and engineers less. 3) That said, hire a DBA? I don't think that's necessary.
flukus 9y ago
If they don't know how to look at a query plan and craft a solution can you really call them full stack?
- vishnugupta 9y ago
  The stack has to bottom our somewhere and it's usually at the application code
  - matte_black 9y ago
    If that’s where they bottom out they should be called “mid stack” rather than full stack. If you are claiming to be full stack you better be prepared to go all the way.
    - adrianN 9y ago
      How much quantum mechanics do you really need to know to code the next Uber for hamsters?
      - flukus 9y ago
        Isn't the current quest in quantum mechanics (to find a grand unified theory) to find an abstraction that does leak? At the moment it's too self contained and doesn't explain anything about the macroscopic world. In any case, having a basic understanding of the next level up (the electron) has proved quite useful to my career, otherwise I wouldn't know how turning things off then on again affects the machines I'm working with.
    - zaarn 9y ago
      I would describe myself full stack under that definition. Most "full stack" people I know that sit in my Uni courses have mostly learned Java EE + Oracle DB or Javascript + /dev/null^w^w MongoDB. Most of them would probably not be able to construct a relational database or libc from scratch. Granted, such knowledge isn't immediately useful since it's something I or anyone is likely to do but it grants insight into systems. I know roughly how a query optimizer does and what it can, and more importantly, can't do. When you know a system you can optimize for it. When you don't know a system you can only follow someone else's advice on how to optimize for it.
      - majewsky 9y ago
        > /dev/null^w^w MongoDB Nitpick: That's actually either three ^w or just one ^w, depending on how your WORDCHARS is set up. :)
collyw 9y ago
I call myself full stack and I can tune a database. decent database design comes first though.

Them, or the manager that hired them? If no one up the chain brings on a DBA what are they supposed to do? I hear ya. But this is as much a symptom of naive (and budget stretched) leadership as it is of the hands on deck.

olalonde 9y ago
Your solution costs 150K$/year while theirs took a weekend and saves 50K$/year...
- chiefalchemist 9y ago
  Allow me to clarify. 1) It took a weekend to complete. The friction was building for far longer. There's a cost to that, esp if it effects customer satisfaction and retention. They didn't refactor for fun, did they :) How many dev teams aren't so lucky? Is this article a no choice outlier, or a best practice? 2) My comment wasn't directed at the article but on another comment that blamed the developers. These problems should be owned by ownership / leadership / management more and engineers less. 3) That said, hire a DBA? I don't think that's necessary.

flukus 9y ago

If they don't know how to look at a query plan and craft a solution can you really call them full stack?

vishnugupta 9y ago
The stack has to bottom our somewhere and it's usually at the application code
- matte_black 9y ago
  If that’s where they bottom out they should be called “mid stack” rather than full stack. If you are claiming to be full stack you better be prepared to go all the way.
  - adrianN 9y ago
    How much quantum mechanics do you really need to know to code the next Uber for hamsters?
    - flukus 9y ago
      Isn't the current quest in quantum mechanics (to find a grand unified theory) to find an abstraction that does leak? At the moment it's too self contained and doesn't explain anything about the macroscopic world. In any case, having a basic understanding of the next level up (the electron) has proved quite useful to my career, otherwise I wouldn't know how turning things off then on again affects the machines I'm working with.
  - zaarn 9y ago
    I would describe myself full stack under that definition. Most "full stack" people I know that sit in my Uni courses have mostly learned Java EE + Oracle DB or Javascript + /dev/null^w^w MongoDB. Most of them would probably not be able to construct a relational database or libc from scratch. Granted, such knowledge isn't immediately useful since it's something I or anyone is likely to do but it grants insight into systems. I know roughly how a query optimizer does and what it can, and more importantly, can't do. When you know a system you can optimize for it. When you don't know a system you can only follow someone else's advice on how to optimize for it.
    - majewsky 9y ago
      > /dev/null^w^w MongoDB Nitpick: That's actually either three ^w or just one ^w, depending on how your WORDCHARS is set up. :)

collyw 9y ago

I call myself full stack and I can tune a database. decent database design comes first though.