7 ms·

One bad night’s sleep may increase levels of Alzheimer’s protein

88 points by dtawfik1 9y ago

narkee 9y ago
As a consequence, are people that have had children found to have higher incidences of Alzheimer's?
- fsfsf 9y ago
  I've never slept better than since I've had my kid. They force you to be much more disciplined with your time.
  - tesin 9y ago
    Did you sleep poorly beforehand, or is it just a deeper sleep now?
    - dilyevsky 9y ago
      It’s a routine thing. Once you’re out of “waking up to feed” phase (which is typically is <10months), it is better to have a rigid sleep schedule for the kid and it forces you to adopt one as well.
- bsbechtel 9y ago
  Anecdotal evidence in my grandmother's family indicates yes. 7 brothers and sisters, and all women who had children in the family developed dementia late in life.
  - fsiefken 9y ago
    perhaps there was a genetic factor here?
    - bsbechtel 9y ago
      It's entirely possible, but it didn't go unnoticed that the women of the family who didn't have kids didn't develop dementia, and those who did have kids did end up with it later in life.
tmikaeld 9y ago
Could this be linked to the other studies that found Alcohol to be a big contibutor to Demantia? http://www.bbc.com/news/health-43141457 http://www.bbc.com/news/health-43141457 Since Alcohol disrupts sleep
- Bartweiss 9y ago
  Offhand, probably not. First, because the amyloid hypothesis is specifically about Alzheimer's-type dementia, while alcohol appears to raise the risk of other dementia outcomes as well. Second, alcohol appears to be a much larger risk factor than other serious sleep-deprivation or sleep-disruption situations from military service to insomnia, suggesting that it's acting by some other mechanism. Obviously this is a hard answer since we don't actually know what causes dementia - at present, we can't even distinguish "sleep deprivation causes amyloid plaques which cause Alzheimer's" from "Alzheimer's causes sleep deprivation which causes amyloid plaques". But I think there's at minimum good evidence that sleep issues aren't the primary mechanism for alcohol to cause dementia.
ccvannorman 9y ago
According to this article, my body is 95% Alzheimer's protein due to living as a startup founder
- creep 9y ago
  So many gainz
amelius 9y ago
> It’s possible this protein helps cause the condition, or instead that the protein forms plaques in the brain in response to the disease. So it might as well be that this protein is doing something good ...
_bxg1 9y ago
Correlation != causation. The headline totally neglects this to be more sensationalist.
- jacobreg 9y ago
  They are testing causation. The researches deprived subjects of sleep on predetermined nights and observed the results to be a buildup of this protein.
  - _bxg1 9y ago
    Correlation between the proteins and Alzheimers. The headline doesn't outright state that it's causal, but leaves plenty of room for people to jump to that natural assumption.
Puer 9y ago
As someone who's been a chronic primary insomniac my whole life, I would not be surprised if I die young despite being very physically fit and healthy. My constant sleep deprivation has already taken a significant toll on my capacity to concentrate and it was the bane of my life during high school/university. It'd be interesting to find out what the actual physical state of my brain is after operating for several decades on 2-4 hours of sleep every night.
- sametmax 9y ago
  I find the topic of insomnia fascinating because it's so alien to me. In the Stephen King's book "Insomnia", the main character explains that you being sleepy and tired can actually be uncorrelated. It's like saying that you can't drink water when you are thirsty. It's so weird.
  - Puer 9y ago
    That's exactly it. I'm in a perpetual state of being "tired", but rarely ever (outside of specific timing windows) in a state of being sleepy. This is partly because I also have a correlated condition called "Delayed Sleep Phase Disorder" which means my natural circadian rhythm is shifted (and unfortunately not in alignment with social norms for when I should be alert and asleep). Sleepiness is the feeling you experience right before you actually fall asleep; the overwhelming relaxation that drags you into the unconscious. Tiredness is being too exhausted to feel or express emotion. You're awake, but mentally absent, and incapable of completing any productive task. It's one of the most frustrating feelings in the world to be unable to do something as simple as sleep. I'm extremely jealous of the people, like my roommate in college, who can seemingly will themselves into sleep within 5 minutes of laying their head down. My insomnia was especially difficult to deal with while I was in school because it made me prone to stupid mistakes on exams. I would often misread or glaze over important details, especially on any trick or multiple choice questions, and in more than one class those little mistakes cost me grade points. It also often didn't matter how much I would study as my memory retention was horrible. Anyone who's read a book whilst tired can attest how difficult it is to not only process the words on the page, but to remember them for later.
Bartweiss 9y ago
The obvious question which isn't addressed in the article - do beta-amyloid levels return to normal after some short span of good sleep? Alzheimer's is associated with consistently elevated beta-amyloid levels, while this study was about a short-term increase. It appears on a skim of the study that the rate wasn't checked over later days, but is expected (from rodent models) to go back down reasonably quickly. That's not a criticism of the study - it's an interesting result linking the disrupted sleep patterns seen in pre-Alzheimers to the protein levels seen in Alzheimer's, and it's also the first study to directly study this link in humans. It just seems like an important caveat because the New Scientist article is a bit fuzzy on whether individual bad sleep events are being seen as a model (yes) or a risk factor (not so far) for Alzheimer's.
acd 9y ago
I think decreased testosterone levels due to aging in combination with lack of sleep in life causes Alzheimer’s but I cannot prove it. Sadly have several family friends who has Alzheimers. https://www.webmd.com/alzheimers/news/20101008/low-testosterone-linked-to-alzheimers-risk https://www.webmd.com/alzheimers/news/20101008/low-testoster...
ndh2 9y ago
> of 20 volunteers over the course of two nights Really? This is news?
dbingham 9y ago
As a periodic insomniac, my insomnia is often triggered by stress, but then fed by the fear of not sleeping. I'll got to bed with my brain caught in some sort of stress loop that I can't break. Then I have the thought "Oh shit, tonight's gonna be an insomnia night, isn't it?" Just having that thought introduces a fuck ton of cortisol into my system, creating a self fulfilling prophecy. ...all of these stories about the dangers of those missed nights of sleep really don't help matters.
- thinkingemote 9y ago
  I find writing down with pencil in a notepad these running thoughts help. Then if you get more, add them. I keep a notepad by my bedside table.
  - dbingham 9y ago
    Yeah, I've been using a combination of melatonin at bedtime and meditation. Plus really good sleep hygiene: red light after 8pm, no screens after 9pm, bed by 9:30 or 10pm every night (with few exceptions) get up with out an alarm every morning (pretty consistently before 8 am) and take a vigorous 1 or 2 mile walk with the dog, no more than 1 cup or tea or coffee in the morning. That all helps control it most of the time. But it doesn't help on those really stressed out nights when I can't seem to break the thought loop long enough to get into a meditative state. I've tried the writing trick, but for me, my thoughts run way faster than my pen can. I often find myself coming to after half an hour of staring at a single paragraph and realizing that I've just been looping the whole time with out writing anything. I'm hoping I'll eventually get good enough at meditating that I'll be able to break those loops, but in the mean time I tend to just try to keep stress low enough that I don't get caught in them in the first place. Life just doesn't always play along.
- brador 9y ago
  Free yourself from indentured servitude, wake when you want, work late into the night. That is your optimal lifestyle, make it a goal.
  - 9y ago
plg 9y ago
We have 2 kids. The youngest born 3.5 yrs ago, both of us > 40 at the time. My spouse kept track of # consecutive nights until we experienced at least 2 nights of uninterrupted sleep (defined as at least one parent with 8 hrs contiguous sleep 2 nights in a row). 489 days Kid is 3y 9m now and still waiting for 5 consecutive days of uninterrupted sleep.
amai 9y ago
This is clearly a sign on how important the glymphatic system is for the brain: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/nedergaard-how-the-brain-dumps-its-trash-video/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/nedergaard-how-th...

88 points by dtawfik1 9y ago

narkee 9y ago

As a consequence, are people that have had children found to have higher incidences of Alzheimer's?

fsfsf 9y ago
I've never slept better than since I've had my kid. They force you to be much more disciplined with your time.
- tesin 9y ago
  Did you sleep poorly beforehand, or is it just a deeper sleep now?
  - dilyevsky 9y ago
    It’s a routine thing. Once you’re out of “waking up to feed” phase (which is typically is <10months), it is better to have a rigid sleep schedule for the kid and it forces you to adopt one as well.
bsbechtel 9y ago
Anecdotal evidence in my grandmother's family indicates yes. 7 brothers and sisters, and all women who had children in the family developed dementia late in life.
- fsiefken 9y ago
  perhaps there was a genetic factor here?
  - bsbechtel 9y ago
    It's entirely possible, but it didn't go unnoticed that the women of the family who didn't have kids didn't develop dementia, and those who did have kids did end up with it later in life.

tmikaeld 9y ago

Could this be linked to the other studies that found Alcohol to be a big contibutor to Demantia? http://www.bbc.com/news/health-43141457 http://www.bbc.com/news/health-43141457 Since Alcohol disrupts sleep

Bartweiss 9y ago
Offhand, probably not. First, because the amyloid hypothesis is specifically about Alzheimer's-type dementia, while alcohol appears to raise the risk of other dementia outcomes as well. Second, alcohol appears to be a much larger risk factor than other serious sleep-deprivation or sleep-disruption situations from military service to insomnia, suggesting that it's acting by some other mechanism. Obviously this is a hard answer since we don't actually know what causes dementia - at present, we can't even distinguish "sleep deprivation causes amyloid plaques which cause Alzheimer's" from "Alzheimer's causes sleep deprivation which causes amyloid plaques". But I think there's at minimum good evidence that sleep issues aren't the primary mechanism for alcohol to cause dementia.

ccvannorman 9y ago

According to this article, my body is 95% Alzheimer's protein due to living as a startup founder

creep 9y ago
So many gainz

amelius 9y ago

> It’s possible this protein helps cause the condition, or instead that the protein forms plaques in the brain in response to the disease. So it might as well be that this protein is doing something good ...

_bxg1 9y ago

Correlation != causation. The headline totally neglects this to be more sensationalist.

jacobreg 9y ago
They are testing causation. The researches deprived subjects of sleep on predetermined nights and observed the results to be a buildup of this protein.
- _bxg1 9y ago
  Correlation between the proteins and Alzheimers. The headline doesn't outright state that it's causal, but leaves plenty of room for people to jump to that natural assumption.

Puer 9y ago

As someone who's been a chronic primary insomniac my whole life, I would not be surprised if I die young despite being very physically fit and healthy. My constant sleep deprivation has already taken a significant toll on my capacity to concentrate and it was the bane of my life during high school/university. It'd be interesting to find out what the actual physical state of my brain is after operating for several decades on 2-4 hours of sleep every night.

sametmax 9y ago
I find the topic of insomnia fascinating because it's so alien to me. In the Stephen King's book "Insomnia", the main character explains that you being sleepy and tired can actually be uncorrelated. It's like saying that you can't drink water when you are thirsty. It's so weird.
- Puer 9y ago
  That's exactly it. I'm in a perpetual state of being "tired", but rarely ever (outside of specific timing windows) in a state of being sleepy. This is partly because I also have a correlated condition called "Delayed Sleep Phase Disorder" which means my natural circadian rhythm is shifted (and unfortunately not in alignment with social norms for when I should be alert and asleep). Sleepiness is the feeling you experience right before you actually fall asleep; the overwhelming relaxation that drags you into the unconscious. Tiredness is being too exhausted to feel or express emotion. You're awake, but mentally absent, and incapable of completing any productive task. It's one of the most frustrating feelings in the world to be unable to do something as simple as sleep. I'm extremely jealous of the people, like my roommate in college, who can seemingly will themselves into sleep within 5 minutes of laying their head down. My insomnia was especially difficult to deal with while I was in school because it made me prone to stupid mistakes on exams. I would often misread or glaze over important details, especially on any trick or multiple choice questions, and in more than one class those little mistakes cost me grade points. It also often didn't matter how much I would study as my memory retention was horrible. Anyone who's read a book whilst tired can attest how difficult it is to not only process the words on the page, but to remember them for later.

Bartweiss 9y ago

The obvious question which isn't addressed in the article - do beta-amyloid levels return to normal after some short span of good sleep? Alzheimer's is associated with consistently elevated beta-amyloid levels, while this study was about a short-term increase. It appears on a skim of the study that the rate wasn't checked over later days, but is expected (from rodent models) to go back down reasonably quickly. That's not a criticism of the study - it's an interesting result linking the disrupted sleep patterns seen in pre-Alzheimers to the protein levels seen in Alzheimer's, and it's also the first study to directly study this link in humans. It just seems like an important caveat because the New Scientist article is a bit fuzzy on whether individual bad sleep events are being seen as a model (yes) or a risk factor (not so far) for Alzheimer's.

acd 9y ago

I think decreased testosterone levels due to aging in combination with lack of sleep in life causes Alzheimer’s but I cannot prove it. Sadly have several family friends who has Alzheimers. https://www.webmd.com/alzheimers/news/20101008/low-testosterone-linked-to-alzheimers-risk https://www.webmd.com/alzheimers/news/20101008/low-testoster...

ndh2 9y ago

> of 20 volunteers over the course of two nights Really? This is news?

dbingham 9y ago

As a periodic insomniac, my insomnia is often triggered by stress, but then fed by the fear of not sleeping. I'll got to bed with my brain caught in some sort of stress loop that I can't break. Then I have the thought "Oh shit, tonight's gonna be an insomnia night, isn't it?" Just having that thought introduces a fuck ton of cortisol into my system, creating a self fulfilling prophecy. ...all of these stories about the dangers of those missed nights of sleep really don't help matters.

thinkingemote 9y ago
I find writing down with pencil in a notepad these running thoughts help. Then if you get more, add them. I keep a notepad by my bedside table.
- dbingham 9y ago
  Yeah, I've been using a combination of melatonin at bedtime and meditation. Plus really good sleep hygiene: red light after 8pm, no screens after 9pm, bed by 9:30 or 10pm every night (with few exceptions) get up with out an alarm every morning (pretty consistently before 8 am) and take a vigorous 1 or 2 mile walk with the dog, no more than 1 cup or tea or coffee in the morning. That all helps control it most of the time. But it doesn't help on those really stressed out nights when I can't seem to break the thought loop long enough to get into a meditative state. I've tried the writing trick, but for me, my thoughts run way faster than my pen can. I often find myself coming to after half an hour of staring at a single paragraph and realizing that I've just been looping the whole time with out writing anything. I'm hoping I'll eventually get good enough at meditating that I'll be able to break those loops, but in the mean time I tend to just try to keep stress low enough that I don't get caught in them in the first place. Life just doesn't always play along.
brador 9y ago
Free yourself from indentured servitude, wake when you want, work late into the night. That is your optimal lifestyle, make it a goal.
- 9y ago

plg 9y ago

We have 2 kids. The youngest born 3.5 yrs ago, both of us > 40 at the time. My spouse kept track of # consecutive nights until we experienced at least 2 nights of uninterrupted sleep (defined as at least one parent with 8 hrs contiguous sleep 2 nights in a row). 489 days Kid is 3y 9m now and still waiting for 5 consecutive days of uninterrupted sleep.

amai 9y ago

This is clearly a sign on how important the glymphatic system is for the brain: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/nedergaard-how-the-brain-dumps-its-trash-video/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/nedergaard-how-th...