8 ms·

Time for third-party data brokers to emerge from the shadows?

182 points by worez 9y ago

wjd2030 9y ago
Yeah! Maybe we can model it after the big 3 consumer credit agencies! We can centralize all ppls info in one easy to access place! This new organization will be much more honest than the current ones! IMO For this to happen correctly it has to be decentralized, perhaps blockchain style.
- laythea 9y ago
  ..or, people can just wise up to what is happening to them. For me, the key moment, was when Microsoft gave away Windows 10. I knew then, that I was the product, however I suspect that most people would not chew on why.
  - shard972 9y ago
    For most people that was great. It was microsoft finially listening to people who refused to pay so much for an OS. I wonder how much it would take for people to wake up. Maybe if Microsoft came out in full support of Donald Trump maybe then people would start writing and caring about their privacy.
  - drewmol 9y ago
    I thought the same thing. Concerning Windows config: a friends dad who's a network engineer turned me on to this resource for Windows service configuration when I was 10 and broke our family pc by removing required boot files. We reinstalled, and [1] was the first place he recommended I go. Still it use to this day. [1] blackviper.com
- IncRnd 9y ago
  To go to a blockchain doesn't logically follow as a solution from the premise that credit agencies keep data.
  - wjd2030 9y ago
    facetious (fə-sēˈshəs)► adj. Playfully jocular; humorous: facetious remarks
franzpeterstein 9y ago
backup: https://web.archive.org/web/20180409214613/https://privacy.org.au/2018/04/09/its-time-for-third-party-data-brokers-to-emerge-from-the-shadows/ https://web.archive.org/web/20180409214613/https://privacy.o...
- timb07 9y ago
  Or, since it's reprinted with permission, here's the original article: https://theconversation.com/its-time-for-third-party-data-brokers-to-emerge-from-the-shadows-94298 https://theconversation.com/its-time-for-third-party-data-br...
RcouF1uZ4gsC 9y ago
The fundamental issue is that the average person in the United States and Austrailia simply don't really care for their online privacy. Offer something free and people will happily sign up and give all sorts of personal information without any hesitation. Offer a loyalty card at a store with discounts, and people will happily sign up for it. Even after the Snowden revelations, not much really happened to the government or the NSA. Even after the Experian breach, the credit rating agencies are still making good money. The underlying reason for this is that except for minorities, most people in these countries never really experienced the downsides of this type of loss of privacy. This is in contrast to Europe, especially Germany where people in living memory experienced first hand how the government could use your private information to literally cause you and/or your family to be imprisoned, tortured, or even killed. Hence, there is a much greater appreciation for privacy in Europe and especially Germany. It is for these reasons that I am pessimistic that the United States and Australia will really take privacy seriously at all in the near future.
- wuliwong 9y ago
  This article is arguing for government regulation in the area of privacy. You state how the killers and abusers of privacy in the past in Europe were the government. I am not able to connect the dots between your point and this article.
  - alejohausner 9y ago
    Government is not intrinsically bad. It can be a tool by which powerless people can get together in large numbers and overcome a small number of powerful people. Of course, the few powerful people will try to distort the democratic process for their own benefit. You seem to think that the rich minority will always win out. But sometimes the poor majority can change the system. For example in the USA in the Great Depression, and after WW2, government tended to favor the working classes much more than it does now.
  - kodablah 9y ago
    This is an important point. We can't point to examples of government distrust as excuses to lean on the government. To me, the differing viewpoints on either side of the Atlantic are simply corporate freedom from government vs customer protection from companies. But there's no denying one side clearly trusts their government to solve these problems instead of other approaches.
HenryBemis 9y ago
I don't meanto be a party-pooper, but what I fear that will ultimately happen is "move slow and change as little as possible". For FB to stop being the devil/cancer they are now, they have to drop all the current practices and burn many bridges/income with any outsider, and make a living with "just advertisments". They will still make a good living from that, but greed is in human nature.
gregknicholson 9y ago
The third-party brokers aren't the root problem. The problem is that Facebook themselves have unfettered access to all of this data. It's a lot of trust to place in one company, whose motives inevitably won't align with your own, and who realistically you can't hold to account.
- znpy 9y ago
  Maybe the problem is that we all now consider normal being requested all this data and giving it too. Maybe the problem is that nowadays alter egos and nicknames are seen as edgy stuff and not as the true joy of living on the Internet.
- ghostcluster 9y ago
  Google has as much data collected if not more. Every search you've ever typed, from where, and when. Every internet video you've watched and liked. When you're awake, when you're asleep, etc.
  - gregknicholson 9y ago
    Indeed. I wasn't clever enough to avoid creating a Google account in the first place (although I'm pretty sure it was just a “Gmail” account back then). I switched away from Gmail and Google Calendar a couple of weeks ago. I also disconnected my Google account from my phone. I haven't regularly used their web search in years. I've used an email address at my own domain for years, precisely so I wasn't tied to Gmail, and therefore I haven't needed to spam my contacts or change a load of user accounts to a new email address. It's almost a shame Google+ never took off, because then the non-tech media might be talking about Google in the same way as Facebook.
siruncledrew 9y ago
I would like to see a network graph of the gathering and exchange of people's information between these data brokers. It would simultaneously be really interesting and really shocking. I can't imagine how many thousands of DBs out there are with a smorgasbord of personal data.
- amelius 9y ago
  Yes, that would be interesting. But it would require a massive research effort, where researchers feed the system with false data, and then, in an undercover operation, i.e. pretending to be customers, request back this data. I'm afraid that would be too much to ask from journalists. On the other hand, it's exactly the kind of research I expect from privacy protection institutions.
- nerdponx 9y ago
  Something like this existed for ad tech several years ago, showing which companies were brokering/selling what. It was basically just an infographic with company logos arranged on it, but it was still enlightening.
  - maxerickson 9y ago
    Maybe http://idlewords.com/2015/11/the_advertising_bubble.htm http://idlewords.com/2015/11/the_advertising_bubble.htm ?
sbhn 9y ago
my data, someone elses money

182 points by worez 9y ago

wjd2030 9y ago

Yeah! Maybe we can model it after the big 3 consumer credit agencies! We can centralize all ppls info in one easy to access place! This new organization will be much more honest than the current ones! IMO For this to happen correctly it has to be decentralized, perhaps blockchain style.

laythea 9y ago
..or, people can just wise up to what is happening to them. For me, the key moment, was when Microsoft gave away Windows 10. I knew then, that I was the product, however I suspect that most people would not chew on why.
- shard972 9y ago
  For most people that was great. It was microsoft finially listening to people who refused to pay so much for an OS. I wonder how much it would take for people to wake up. Maybe if Microsoft came out in full support of Donald Trump maybe then people would start writing and caring about their privacy.
- drewmol 9y ago
  I thought the same thing. Concerning Windows config: a friends dad who's a network engineer turned me on to this resource for Windows service configuration when I was 10 and broke our family pc by removing required boot files. We reinstalled, and [1] was the first place he recommended I go. Still it use to this day. [1] blackviper.com
IncRnd 9y ago
To go to a blockchain doesn't logically follow as a solution from the premise that credit agencies keep data.
- wjd2030 9y ago
  facetious (fə-sēˈshəs)► adj. Playfully jocular; humorous: facetious remarks

franzpeterstein 9y ago

backup: https://web.archive.org/web/20180409214613/https://privacy.org.au/2018/04/09/its-time-for-third-party-data-brokers-to-emerge-from-the-shadows/ https://web.archive.org/web/20180409214613/https://privacy.o...

timb07 9y ago
Or, since it's reprinted with permission, here's the original article: https://theconversation.com/its-time-for-third-party-data-brokers-to-emerge-from-the-shadows-94298 https://theconversation.com/its-time-for-third-party-data-br...

RcouF1uZ4gsC 9y ago

The fundamental issue is that the average person in the United States and Austrailia simply don't really care for their online privacy. Offer something free and people will happily sign up and give all sorts of personal information without any hesitation. Offer a loyalty card at a store with discounts, and people will happily sign up for it. Even after the Snowden revelations, not much really happened to the government or the NSA. Even after the Experian breach, the credit rating agencies are still making good money. The underlying reason for this is that except for minorities, most people in these countries never really experienced the downsides of this type of loss of privacy. This is in contrast to Europe, especially Germany where people in living memory experienced first hand how the government could use your private information to literally cause you and/or your family to be imprisoned, tortured, or even killed. Hence, there is a much greater appreciation for privacy in Europe and especially Germany. It is for these reasons that I am pessimistic that the United States and Australia will really take privacy seriously at all in the near future.

wuliwong 9y ago
This article is arguing for government regulation in the area of privacy. You state how the killers and abusers of privacy in the past in Europe were the government. I am not able to connect the dots between your point and this article.
- alejohausner 9y ago
  Government is not intrinsically bad. It can be a tool by which powerless people can get together in large numbers and overcome a small number of powerful people. Of course, the few powerful people will try to distort the democratic process for their own benefit. You seem to think that the rich minority will always win out. But sometimes the poor majority can change the system. For example in the USA in the Great Depression, and after WW2, government tended to favor the working classes much more than it does now.
- kodablah 9y ago
  This is an important point. We can't point to examples of government distrust as excuses to lean on the government. To me, the differing viewpoints on either side of the Atlantic are simply corporate freedom from government vs customer protection from companies. But there's no denying one side clearly trusts their government to solve these problems instead of other approaches.

HenryBemis 9y ago

I don't meanto be a party-pooper, but what I fear that will ultimately happen is "move slow and change as little as possible". For FB to stop being the devil/cancer they are now, they have to drop all the current practices and burn many bridges/income with any outsider, and make a living with "just advertisments". They will still make a good living from that, but greed is in human nature.

gregknicholson 9y ago

The third-party brokers aren't the root problem. The problem is that Facebook themselves have unfettered access to all of this data. It's a lot of trust to place in one company, whose motives inevitably won't align with your own, and who realistically you can't hold to account.

znpy 9y ago
Maybe the problem is that we all now consider normal being requested all this data and giving it too. Maybe the problem is that nowadays alter egos and nicknames are seen as edgy stuff and not as the true joy of living on the Internet.
ghostcluster 9y ago
Google has as much data collected if not more. Every search you've ever typed, from where, and when. Every internet video you've watched and liked. When you're awake, when you're asleep, etc.
- gregknicholson 9y ago
  Indeed. I wasn't clever enough to avoid creating a Google account in the first place (although I'm pretty sure it was just a “Gmail” account back then). I switched away from Gmail and Google Calendar a couple of weeks ago. I also disconnected my Google account from my phone. I haven't regularly used their web search in years. I've used an email address at my own domain for years, precisely so I wasn't tied to Gmail, and therefore I haven't needed to spam my contacts or change a load of user accounts to a new email address. It's almost a shame Google+ never took off, because then the non-tech media might be talking about Google in the same way as Facebook.

siruncledrew 9y ago

I would like to see a network graph of the gathering and exchange of people's information between these data brokers. It would simultaneously be really interesting and really shocking. I can't imagine how many thousands of DBs out there are with a smorgasbord of personal data.

amelius 9y ago
Yes, that would be interesting. But it would require a massive research effort, where researchers feed the system with false data, and then, in an undercover operation, i.e. pretending to be customers, request back this data. I'm afraid that would be too much to ask from journalists. On the other hand, it's exactly the kind of research I expect from privacy protection institutions.
nerdponx 9y ago
Something like this existed for ad tech several years ago, showing which companies were brokering/selling what. It was basically just an infographic with company logos arranged on it, but it was still enlightening.
- maxerickson 9y ago
  Maybe http://idlewords.com/2015/11/the_advertising_bubble.htm http://idlewords.com/2015/11/the_advertising_bubble.htm ?

sbhn 9y ago

my data, someone elses money