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I highly recommend Confessions of an Economic Hitman by John Perkins (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confessions_of_an_Economic_Hit_Man https://en.wikipedia.org/

by paxy 9y ago

I highly recommend Confessions of an Economic Hitman by John Perkins (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confessions_of_an_Economic_Hit_Man https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confessions_of_an_Economic_Hit...) which goes into detail about the "debt trap" referred to in the article. Coercing developing countries into taking out loans they can't afford to build infrastructure they don't need has been the USA's MO for decades, and is the reason why it is able to exert so much geopolitical influence around the world. And recently China has been playing the same game.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
abakker 9y ago
Then, read “Debt, the first 5000 years” after that. A great combo.
- mikepurvis 9y ago
  I'm partway through this one based on a previous HN recommendation— it's a bit of an intimidating tome, but a very easy, engaging read.
- cynicalkane 9y ago
  I've reposted this a few times, but it's worth repeating: Graeber, the author of "Debt: the first 5000 years", lies extensively about easily verifiable facts. Here, for example, is Graeber on Apple Computers: > Apple Computers is a famous example: it was founded by (mostly Republican) computer engineers who broke from IBM in Silicon Valley in the 1980s, forming little democratic circles of twenty to forty people with their laptops in each other's garages. Someone who's willing to say something like that has blown their credentials in my book, especially when it comes to economics, which is an ideologically touchy field already. Here's a further, somewhat ranty discussion by Brad Delong, a well-respected left-wing economist: http://delong.typepad.com/sdj/2013/04/david-graeber-april-fools-day-post.html http://delong.typepad.com/sdj/2013/04/david-graeber-april-fo...
  - bbctol 9y ago
    Should be noted, on the subject of easily verifiable facts, that DeLong is not a leftist.
    - glenra 9y ago
      > Should be noted, on the subject of easily verifiable facts, that DeLong is not a leftist. Are you trying to make some subtle distinction between "leftist" and "left-wing", or are you claiming DeLong doesn't even qualify as a "left-wing economist"? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._Bradford_DeLong#Political_views https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._Bradford_DeLong#Political_v...
      - ffxtian 9y ago
        I don't see anything in the page you linked that would qualify him as a "left-wing economist". Neither supporting an openly capitalist political party nor providing theoretical underpinnings for financial deregulation qualify as "leftism".
      - bbctol 9y ago
        He is neither.
  - abakker 9y ago
    I noticed that when I was reading and kind of went "huh?". It's simultaneously a strange error and one which would be easy to avoid, so I can see why you say he lies. It also worries me that if the pattern were to repeat on other parts of the book that I don't have any knowledge about, I wouldn't recognize them off hand. It's far from ideal. On the other hand, I think the book is full of good analysis, the overall narrative is compelling. I don't think it really warrants treatment as a textbook, more as any other mass market non-fiction...subject to factual scrutiny, but worthy of intellectual engagement as well. he cites enough true things and gives enough examples that the point would stand alone if the factual errors named were simply removed. Now, I don't condone lying, and I certainly am not pleased to see that post you linked. I am also sufficiently interested with the philosophical content of the book that I still recommend it, though with a slightly tempered sense of enthusiasm...sigh.
samstave 9y ago
Should read a bunch of these articles. This one is from 2008[0] But just gooogle “China invaded Africa” to get a bunch more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1036105/How-Chinas-taking-Africa-West-VERY-worried.html http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1036105/How-Chinas-t...
seanmcdirmid 9y ago
> Coercing developing countries into taking out loans they can't afford to build infrastructure they don't need has been the USA's MO for decades I'm not arguing against your point, but do you have any specific examples? The wiki article doesn't really offer up anything, do we just have to read the book?
- gervase 9y ago
  It's been quite a few years since I read it, but I seem to recall it was mostly things like dams, oil fields, electric grids, and stuff like that. I don't recall if the author lists very specific information about the examples, such as "The Salvajina Dam, located at such-and-such coordinates", in the book, but I don't think so.
  - crag 9y ago
    John Perkins does list specific examples in his book. Mostly located in Southeast Asia and South America. Not by name, of course. But by location. He talks about the politics of how these "deals" happened, who benefited and what role the military and state departments played. His book is a great read.
decebalus1 9y ago
> Coercing developing countries into taking out loans they can't afford to build infrastructure they don't need has been the USA's MO for decades Yes but in China's case they don't expect to be involved in the internal policies or demand specific budgetary restrictions when they default on their loan. As opposed to an IMF loan, China has better and simpler terms (someone below outlined this already: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16796087 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16796087) and they know it.
jdonaldson 9y ago
Another recommendation I have is Life and Debt : https://vimeo.com/149178039 https://vimeo.com/149178039 It explores the fallout of loan conditions given to the government of Jamaica. The main issue surrounded Jamaica's acceptance of a loan in the aftermath of an oil crisis. The loan conditions required the Jamaican government to not impose trade restrictions or tariffs on member countries of the World Bank. This meant America's subsidized grain and vegetables could be sold there at a fraction of the cost of production in Jamaica, and the whole process led to a collapse of Jamaica's agricultural industries.

by paxy 9y ago

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

abakker 9y ago

Then, read “Debt, the first 5000 years” after that. A great combo.

mikepurvis 9y ago
I'm partway through this one based on a previous HN recommendation— it's a bit of an intimidating tome, but a very easy, engaging read.
cynicalkane 9y ago
I've reposted this a few times, but it's worth repeating: Graeber, the author of "Debt: the first 5000 years", lies extensively about easily verifiable facts. Here, for example, is Graeber on Apple Computers: > Apple Computers is a famous example: it was founded by (mostly Republican) computer engineers who broke from IBM in Silicon Valley in the 1980s, forming little democratic circles of twenty to forty people with their laptops in each other's garages. Someone who's willing to say something like that has blown their credentials in my book, especially when it comes to economics, which is an ideologically touchy field already. Here's a further, somewhat ranty discussion by Brad Delong, a well-respected left-wing economist: http://delong.typepad.com/sdj/2013/04/david-graeber-april-fools-day-post.html http://delong.typepad.com/sdj/2013/04/david-graeber-april-fo...
- bbctol 9y ago
  Should be noted, on the subject of easily verifiable facts, that DeLong is not a leftist.
  - glenra 9y ago
    > Should be noted, on the subject of easily verifiable facts, that DeLong is not a leftist. Are you trying to make some subtle distinction between "leftist" and "left-wing", or are you claiming DeLong doesn't even qualify as a "left-wing economist"? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._Bradford_DeLong#Political_views https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._Bradford_DeLong#Political_v...
    - ffxtian 9y ago
      I don't see anything in the page you linked that would qualify him as a "left-wing economist". Neither supporting an openly capitalist political party nor providing theoretical underpinnings for financial deregulation qualify as "leftism".
    - bbctol 9y ago
      He is neither.
- abakker 9y ago
  I noticed that when I was reading and kind of went "huh?". It's simultaneously a strange error and one which would be easy to avoid, so I can see why you say he lies. It also worries me that if the pattern were to repeat on other parts of the book that I don't have any knowledge about, I wouldn't recognize them off hand. It's far from ideal. On the other hand, I think the book is full of good analysis, the overall narrative is compelling. I don't think it really warrants treatment as a textbook, more as any other mass market non-fiction...subject to factual scrutiny, but worthy of intellectual engagement as well. he cites enough true things and gives enough examples that the point would stand alone if the factual errors named were simply removed. Now, I don't condone lying, and I certainly am not pleased to see that post you linked. I am also sufficiently interested with the philosophical content of the book that I still recommend it, though with a slightly tempered sense of enthusiasm...sigh.

samstave 9y ago

Should read a bunch of these articles. This one is from 2008[0] But just gooogle “China invaded Africa” to get a bunch more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1036105/How-Chinas-taking-Africa-West-VERY-worried.html http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1036105/How-Chinas-t...

seanmcdirmid 9y ago

> Coercing developing countries into taking out loans they can't afford to build infrastructure they don't need has been the USA's MO for decades I'm not arguing against your point, but do you have any specific examples? The wiki article doesn't really offer up anything, do we just have to read the book?

gervase 9y ago
It's been quite a few years since I read it, but I seem to recall it was mostly things like dams, oil fields, electric grids, and stuff like that. I don't recall if the author lists very specific information about the examples, such as "The Salvajina Dam, located at such-and-such coordinates", in the book, but I don't think so.
- crag 9y ago
  John Perkins does list specific examples in his book. Mostly located in Southeast Asia and South America. Not by name, of course. But by location. He talks about the politics of how these "deals" happened, who benefited and what role the military and state departments played. His book is a great read.

decebalus1 9y ago

> Coercing developing countries into taking out loans they can't afford to build infrastructure they don't need has been the USA's MO for decades Yes but in China's case they don't expect to be involved in the internal policies or demand specific budgetary restrictions when they default on their loan. As opposed to an IMF loan, China has better and simpler terms (someone below outlined this already: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16796087 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16796087) and they know it.

jdonaldson 9y ago

Another recommendation I have is Life and Debt : https://vimeo.com/149178039 https://vimeo.com/149178039 It explores the fallout of loan conditions given to the government of Jamaica. The main issue surrounded Jamaica's acceptance of a loan in the aftermath of an oil crisis. The loan conditions required the Jamaican government to not impose trade restrictions or tariffs on member countries of the World Bank. This meant America's subsidized grain and vegetables could be sold there at a fraction of the cost of production in Jamaica, and the whole process led to a collapse of Jamaica's agricultural industries.