4 ms·

This really is a regional problem. I live around the area, near the beautiful Santa Ana trail which connects two counties to the ocean. A few months ago, I rode

This really is a regional problem. I live around the area, near the beautiful Santa Ana trail which connects two counties to the ocean. A few months ago, I rode down the 40-mile stretch for the first time in a long time, and I was absolutely shocked to see the extent of the tent city near the Anaheim Angels stadium. The people living there were living on hard times, it felt post-apocalyptic in some sense. The tent area spanned for a couple of miles - there was garbage everywhere, people washing the clothes on the trail, people urinating on the side, and some wondering around in a zombie-like state I can only assume was either mental illness or drug abuse. Finally, officials decided to close the trail to do a clean-up. There was about 400 tons of trash, 14,000 needles and 5,000 lbs of "waste" removed. http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2018/04/07/santa-ana-river-trail-reopens/ http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2018/04/07/santa-ana-river-tr... Honestly, I can't blame Irvine for not wanting this in their backyard. But unfortunately, as the people were getting evicted from these makeshift cities, they are setting up the tents in other neighboring cities. There is a small area near where I live now too. I don't know what the answer is, or how to deal with it. All I can tell you is that it was not a good feeling, both from a humanitarian and safety point of view, i.e. I felt awful for the people living in this, but also uneasy around it.

fouc 9y ago
I think if you were living in limbo, you'd be pretty zombie-like. Regardless of drugs or mental health.
NedIsakoff 9y ago
So as someone said: if city X has a problem, they fix the problem by evicting the people, the people move to my city (city Y). Why should we (city Y) have to deal with it? Just evict them like city X did. What's good for the goose is good for the gander..
- RcouF1uZ4gsC 9y ago
  Eventually, they will end up in San Francisco who will welcome them.
  - NedIsakoff 9y ago
    Fine, that's not my problem them. I'm safe in my city Y.
TomK32 9y ago
> I don't know what the answer is, or how to deal with it. The answer is to give them a home, help to get back into a regular life and make sure they don't run into the same issues again that led to their homelessness. Finland has managed to achieve this, why can't the rest of the western world follow?
- azinman2 9y ago
  Because the rest isn’t identical? Scale, education equality, discrepancies in make up and values, notions of state responsibility, healthcare accessibility, etc.
- ranman 9y ago
  Finland has a population that is 70x smaller than the US. They also invest heavily in education. I assume other countries struggle scaling programs from 5 million people to 350 million... and that’s why many of the great programs that Finland has don’t scale to elsewhere.
  - pedrosorio 9y ago
    Population, education, "homogeneity". Why don't we just leave it at "Have you spent a winter in Finland and Southern California?"
  - stefs 9y ago
    that's always the argument: "doesn't work here because the population size is n times as big". but i don't understand why this should be the case. it's not that the culture in the u.s. is fundamentally different. and it's not like their budget to combat homelessness couldn't also be n times as big. and the problem in the u.s. is pressing (at least compared to other rich countries) and, one would think, warrant drastic measures. i think one of the underlying problems is that homelessness is a very diverse problem - people are homeless for very different reasons and need very different solutions - and mostly a symptom of underlying problems that are actually hard to fix. i.e. fixing the symptom would be easy compared to fixing the many, many root issues, because the solutions may run counter to american cultural values, which aren't a problem in countries like finland (an expanded social safety net, for example). decriminalization of (hard) drugs as seen in portugal might be easier to implement (at least under the next democrat government). on the other hand i fear that a rising income disparity all over the world might actually cause the problem to worsen in other countries that don't have a huge pressing homelessness problem right now and follow americas lead in the latest tent city fashions.
floatingatoll 9y ago
As a local, would you accept a regional sales tax increase of 1% if it paid for real housing and counseling services for the residents of the camp?
- NedIsakoff 9y ago
  Yes if the housing and services are equally distributed in all the neighborhoods. Each region/city should host an proportional number of homeless.
  - koolba 9y ago
    > Each region/city should host an proportional number of homeless. And what if they don’t and simply bus their homeless out of town to yours[1]? Implementing something like that intra-State would be hard enough. Doing it across States is impossible without the Federal government running it and I doubt that’d ever happen. https://www.thestranger.com/slog/2017/12/22/25650858/how-wealthy-american-cities-are-busing-homeless-people-to-poorer-areas https://www.thestranger.com/slog/2017/12/22/25650858/how-wea...
    - NedIsakoff 9y ago
      Then our town will spend our 1% busing them back to where they came from. The issue is that why should my town or city take them in when town or city X isn't.
      - krageon 9y ago
        Because it's the right thing to do? I don't understand why this needs to devolve into an "us vs them" scenario that ends up with the US growing their literal tent slums.
- stmfreak 9y ago
  No.
- kaster002 9y ago
Balgair 9y ago
> This really is a regional problem Maybe. In the Bay Area, try riding the BART between Oakland and Dublin. There are a lot of sprawling shanty towns by the tracks. Just north of the stadium in particular.

fouc 9y ago

I think if you were living in limbo, you'd be pretty zombie-like. Regardless of drugs or mental health.

NedIsakoff 9y ago

So as someone said: if city X has a problem, they fix the problem by evicting the people, the people move to my city (city Y). Why should we (city Y) have to deal with it? Just evict them like city X did. What's good for the goose is good for the gander..

RcouF1uZ4gsC 9y ago
Eventually, they will end up in San Francisco who will welcome them.
- NedIsakoff 9y ago
  Fine, that's not my problem them. I'm safe in my city Y.

TomK32 9y ago

> I don't know what the answer is, or how to deal with it. The answer is to give them a home, help to get back into a regular life and make sure they don't run into the same issues again that led to their homelessness. Finland has managed to achieve this, why can't the rest of the western world follow?

azinman2 9y ago
Because the rest isn’t identical? Scale, education equality, discrepancies in make up and values, notions of state responsibility, healthcare accessibility, etc.
ranman 9y ago
Finland has a population that is 70x smaller than the US. They also invest heavily in education. I assume other countries struggle scaling programs from 5 million people to 350 million... and that’s why many of the great programs that Finland has don’t scale to elsewhere.
- pedrosorio 9y ago
  Population, education, "homogeneity". Why don't we just leave it at "Have you spent a winter in Finland and Southern California?"
- stefs 9y ago
  that's always the argument: "doesn't work here because the population size is n times as big". but i don't understand why this should be the case. it's not that the culture in the u.s. is fundamentally different. and it's not like their budget to combat homelessness couldn't also be n times as big. and the problem in the u.s. is pressing (at least compared to other rich countries) and, one would think, warrant drastic measures. i think one of the underlying problems is that homelessness is a very diverse problem - people are homeless for very different reasons and need very different solutions - and mostly a symptom of underlying problems that are actually hard to fix. i.e. fixing the symptom would be easy compared to fixing the many, many root issues, because the solutions may run counter to american cultural values, which aren't a problem in countries like finland (an expanded social safety net, for example). decriminalization of (hard) drugs as seen in portugal might be easier to implement (at least under the next democrat government). on the other hand i fear that a rising income disparity all over the world might actually cause the problem to worsen in other countries that don't have a huge pressing homelessness problem right now and follow americas lead in the latest tent city fashions.

floatingatoll 9y ago

As a local, would you accept a regional sales tax increase of 1% if it paid for real housing and counseling services for the residents of the camp?

NedIsakoff 9y ago
Yes if the housing and services are equally distributed in all the neighborhoods. Each region/city should host an proportional number of homeless.
- koolba 9y ago
  > Each region/city should host an proportional number of homeless. And what if they don’t and simply bus their homeless out of town to yours[1]? Implementing something like that intra-State would be hard enough. Doing it across States is impossible without the Federal government running it and I doubt that’d ever happen. https://www.thestranger.com/slog/2017/12/22/25650858/how-wealthy-american-cities-are-busing-homeless-people-to-poorer-areas https://www.thestranger.com/slog/2017/12/22/25650858/how-wea...
  - NedIsakoff 9y ago
    Then our town will spend our 1% busing them back to where they came from. The issue is that why should my town or city take them in when town or city X isn't.
    - krageon 9y ago
      Because it's the right thing to do? I don't understand why this needs to devolve into an "us vs them" scenario that ends up with the US growing their literal tent slums.
stmfreak 9y ago
No.
kaster002 9y ago

Balgair 9y ago

> This really is a regional problem Maybe. In the Bay Area, try riding the BART between Oakland and Dublin. There are a lot of sprawling shanty towns by the tracks. Just north of the stadium in particular.