6 ms·

This is very similar the stories one hears regarding NIMBYism in the Silicon Valley. Hard working, successful immigrants seem to subscribe the just world hypoth

This is very similar the stories one hears regarding NIMBYism in the Silicon Valley. Hard working, successful immigrants seem to subscribe the just world hypothesis, exactly as one might predict. Their tolerance for those who aren’t able to do the same is pretty low from what I’ve seen. If they can come here poor and in a generation become millionaires and buy a home in California of all places, then why can’t everyone else.

rossdavidh 8y ago
Another angle I've seen, in Austin, is that people who are close to falling off that cliff are among the least tolerant of those who have. Those who are scraping by with service jobs are often least tolerant of the mentally-ill homeless person who hassles them on the way to work, and quickest to call the police. If you are a first-generation immigrant, I think it often means you do not take it as a given that you cannot fall out of the successful class, even if you are doing well now. Someone born into the professional class may feel better about themselves for tolerating uncomfortable behavior from someone less fortunate, whereas someone who in the back of their mind is worried about "that could be me someday" is not feeling good about themselves for being tolerant. Just my own anecdotal view, I have no data to back that up on a large scale.
- api 8y ago
  No data but I have similar anecdotes, and also have to point out that in the past 50 years or so a lot of the strongest political opposition to increased social programs has come from the working class. Most of the wealthy I've spoken to are less opposed to social spending. In addition to the reasons cited another factor might be diminishing marginal utility of money. A 1% tax hike on a millionaire will have zero tangible perceived effect on his or her lifestyle. A similar tax increase on a working class person could be devastating.
- zeth___ 8y ago
  > Irvine boasts a median home value of $740,000. I don't see these people as 'nearly falling off'. I see these as people who don't want to have the value of their homes fall even one cent because 'we got here on our own hard work'.
  - rossdavidh 8y ago
    Certainly, but that was no doubt true before it became an immigrant community. First generation immigrants are more likely to have experienced a very different level of wealth earlier in their life, which makes one's attitude towards the possibility of losing it different than if you were born into that class and society and had always been there. But, I could be wrong.
zeth___ 8y ago
>If they can come here poor and in a generation become millionaires and buy a home in California of all places, then why can’t everyone else. If they can do it here, why couldn't they do it back home?
- api 8y ago
  Political corruption, totalitarianism.
  - zeth___ 8y ago
    Plenty of people got rich in China. Sounds like excuses from people who just couldn't cut it.
    - api 8y ago
      It's easier to cut it in California?
      - zeth___ 8y ago
        Infinitely.
      - NedIsakoff 8y ago
        Yes.
    - kss238 8y ago
      *Plenty of lucky people got rich in China.
    - imgabe 8y ago
      Plenty of people got rich in Russia too. That doesn't mean it was something open to anyone.
      - zeth___ 8y ago
        Sounds like something losers tell themselves to feel better. After all, you just need to rise early, work hard and strike oil to make it rich.
odnforthday 8y ago
Here's the part I don't buy. She says Irvine is made up of 45% Asians, but the protesters are mainly immigrants. Unless all 45% are first-generations, then what she said doesn't add up. She uses the word immigrant only twice in the article, near the top, with little proof backing her statement. Those that she interview have Asian names, but that doesn't mean they are immigrants. By using the word immigrant, she made the article sensational. She tried to turn the protest into a topic of race, rather than simply stating Irvine residents don't want a homeless shelter in the neighborhood. Are most immigrants intolerant of homeless in Irvine? That's rather absolute to be true. What about the other 40% whites? Do all of them approve of the homeless shelter? 40% vs 45% are about the same weight, but she chose to focus on only one side of the story. It would be more correct to state: Irvine, made up of 45% Asian ethnicity, fights back against homeless shelter.
- chrischen 8y ago
  She almost definitely categorized non-whites as “immigrants” based on assumption, simply based on the fact that I highly doubt she conducted a background survey of the protesters.
- electriclove 8y ago
  You are absolutely correct. No one (Asian or not, immigrant or not, Irvine or elsewhere) wants homeless moved into their neighborhood.
- ams6110 8y ago
  It's a trend in the media, that everything is framed as A vs. B. Whether that's immigrant status, race, color, religion, sex, it's all done to create a division, pander to one side or the other, and get viewers.
chrischen 8y ago
You can’t expect them to have the solutions for a societal problem. The fact that there isn’t affordable housing and job opportunities for these homeless is a failing of the US government, not Irving’s government, and definitely not of that local community. However if all the homeless congregate in that area, it’s an unfair burden to that community from a problem caused by a failing of the government. They have the right to complain, and they don’t have the responsibility to accept that burden alone. They can certainly take action to remove the burden without being blamed because no other community will step up to the plate.
- humanrebar 8y ago
  > ...not Irving’s government... Surely city governments are responsible for acute mental health issues. Not all homeless have need for serious mental health care, but the number is high and those needs should be taken care of before (or at the latest, while) talking about jobs. EDIT: At least, local governments should be educating the public about how much help they need from state and national government.
  - chrischen 8y ago
    That would assume that the homeless were caused by / came from Irving. That’s unlikely, as there are no borders in the US and people are free to move about. See this article on how US cities pay homeless people to leave town, and they end up somewhere else, as someone else’s problem: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2017/dec/20/bussed-out-america-moves-homeless-people-country-study https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2017/dec/... Problem is nobody wants them, yet no one will enact policies that will solve the problem. So if you sit back and accept the homeless while not really solving the issue, you’re just being a chump.
    - humanrebar 8y ago
      > That would assume that the homeless were caused by / came from Irving. Something can be your responsibility even if it's not your fault. Particular people with particular problems is a local issue. Particular tent cities hurting particular parks or businesses is also a local issue. Go ask a local social worker or police officer. They know everyone on a first name basis. They just don't have anywhere to go with their information. > Problem is nobody wants them, yet no one will enact policies that will solve the problem. So instead of shifting responsibility in one way or another, local governments and communities need to organize more around these issues. It's true that it's a huge problem, arguably one that will never get solved completely, but the local governments need to start by getting the word out about the particular needs they have: studies, funding, legal frameworks, training, coordination systems, etc. This is the kind of targeted Medicaid expansion that should be discussed, especially since mental health is in the news so much these days.
electriclove 8y ago
FWIW, there is a ton of affordable housing initiatives in Irvine, but the demand is greater yet. http://www.cityofirvine.org/community-development/affordable-housing http://www.cityofirvine.org/community-development/affordable...

rossdavidh 8y ago

Another angle I've seen, in Austin, is that people who are close to falling off that cliff are among the least tolerant of those who have. Those who are scraping by with service jobs are often least tolerant of the mentally-ill homeless person who hassles them on the way to work, and quickest to call the police. If you are a first-generation immigrant, I think it often means you do not take it as a given that you cannot fall out of the successful class, even if you are doing well now. Someone born into the professional class may feel better about themselves for tolerating uncomfortable behavior from someone less fortunate, whereas someone who in the back of their mind is worried about "that could be me someday" is not feeling good about themselves for being tolerant. Just my own anecdotal view, I have no data to back that up on a large scale.

api 8y ago
No data but I have similar anecdotes, and also have to point out that in the past 50 years or so a lot of the strongest political opposition to increased social programs has come from the working class. Most of the wealthy I've spoken to are less opposed to social spending. In addition to the reasons cited another factor might be diminishing marginal utility of money. A 1% tax hike on a millionaire will have zero tangible perceived effect on his or her lifestyle. A similar tax increase on a working class person could be devastating.
zeth___ 8y ago
> Irvine boasts a median home value of $740,000. I don't see these people as 'nearly falling off'. I see these as people who don't want to have the value of their homes fall even one cent because 'we got here on our own hard work'.
- rossdavidh 8y ago
  Certainly, but that was no doubt true before it became an immigrant community. First generation immigrants are more likely to have experienced a very different level of wealth earlier in their life, which makes one's attitude towards the possibility of losing it different than if you were born into that class and society and had always been there. But, I could be wrong.

zeth___ 8y ago

>If they can come here poor and in a generation become millionaires and buy a home in California of all places, then why can’t everyone else. If they can do it here, why couldn't they do it back home?

api 8y ago
Political corruption, totalitarianism.
- zeth___ 8y ago
  Plenty of people got rich in China. Sounds like excuses from people who just couldn't cut it.
  - api 8y ago
    It's easier to cut it in California?
    - zeth___ 8y ago
      Infinitely.
    - NedIsakoff 8y ago
      Yes.
  - kss238 8y ago
    *Plenty of lucky people got rich in China.
  - imgabe 8y ago
    Plenty of people got rich in Russia too. That doesn't mean it was something open to anyone.
    - zeth___ 8y ago
      Sounds like something losers tell themselves to feel better. After all, you just need to rise early, work hard and strike oil to make it rich.

odnforthday 8y ago

Here's the part I don't buy. She says Irvine is made up of 45% Asians, but the protesters are mainly immigrants. Unless all 45% are first-generations, then what she said doesn't add up. She uses the word immigrant only twice in the article, near the top, with little proof backing her statement. Those that she interview have Asian names, but that doesn't mean they are immigrants. By using the word immigrant, she made the article sensational. She tried to turn the protest into a topic of race, rather than simply stating Irvine residents don't want a homeless shelter in the neighborhood. Are most immigrants intolerant of homeless in Irvine? That's rather absolute to be true. What about the other 40% whites? Do all of them approve of the homeless shelter? 40% vs 45% are about the same weight, but she chose to focus on only one side of the story. It would be more correct to state: Irvine, made up of 45% Asian ethnicity, fights back against homeless shelter.

chrischen 8y ago
She almost definitely categorized non-whites as “immigrants” based on assumption, simply based on the fact that I highly doubt she conducted a background survey of the protesters.
electriclove 8y ago
You are absolutely correct. No one (Asian or not, immigrant or not, Irvine or elsewhere) wants homeless moved into their neighborhood.
ams6110 8y ago
It's a trend in the media, that everything is framed as A vs. B. Whether that's immigrant status, race, color, religion, sex, it's all done to create a division, pander to one side or the other, and get viewers.

chrischen 8y ago

You can’t expect them to have the solutions for a societal problem. The fact that there isn’t affordable housing and job opportunities for these homeless is a failing of the US government, not Irving’s government, and definitely not of that local community. However if all the homeless congregate in that area, it’s an unfair burden to that community from a problem caused by a failing of the government. They have the right to complain, and they don’t have the responsibility to accept that burden alone. They can certainly take action to remove the burden without being blamed because no other community will step up to the plate.

humanrebar 8y ago
> ...not Irving’s government... Surely city governments are responsible for acute mental health issues. Not all homeless have need for serious mental health care, but the number is high and those needs should be taken care of before (or at the latest, while) talking about jobs. EDIT: At least, local governments should be educating the public about how much help they need from state and national government.
- chrischen 8y ago
  That would assume that the homeless were caused by / came from Irving. That’s unlikely, as there are no borders in the US and people are free to move about. See this article on how US cities pay homeless people to leave town, and they end up somewhere else, as someone else’s problem: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2017/dec/20/bussed-out-america-moves-homeless-people-country-study https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2017/dec/... Problem is nobody wants them, yet no one will enact policies that will solve the problem. So if you sit back and accept the homeless while not really solving the issue, you’re just being a chump.
  - humanrebar 8y ago
    > That would assume that the homeless were caused by / came from Irving. Something can be your responsibility even if it's not your fault. Particular people with particular problems is a local issue. Particular tent cities hurting particular parks or businesses is also a local issue. Go ask a local social worker or police officer. They know everyone on a first name basis. They just don't have anywhere to go with their information. > Problem is nobody wants them, yet no one will enact policies that will solve the problem. So instead of shifting responsibility in one way or another, local governments and communities need to organize more around these issues. It's true that it's a huge problem, arguably one that will never get solved completely, but the local governments need to start by getting the word out about the particular needs they have: studies, funding, legal frameworks, training, coordination systems, etc. This is the kind of targeted Medicaid expansion that should be discussed, especially since mental health is in the news so much these days.

electriclove 8y ago

FWIW, there is a ton of affordable housing initiatives in Irvine, but the demand is greater yet. http://www.cityofirvine.org/community-development/affordable-housing http://www.cityofirvine.org/community-development/affordable...