8 ms·

I was tempting to install NixOS on my PC but found out their installation method is fully involved of dozens of manual steps [1]. And I feel exhausted just read

by a012 9y ago

I was tempting to install NixOS on my PC but found out their installation method is fully involved of dozens of manual steps [1]. And I feel exhausted just reading their guide, so I don't want to try at all. 1 - https://nixos.org/nixos/manual/index.html#sec-installation https://nixos.org/nixos/manual/index.html#sec-installation

fhood 9y ago
> The NixOS installer doesn’t do any partitioning or formatting yet, so you need to do that yourself. Use the following commands: Wow, you are not kidding. Edit: I could swear this comment was originally replying to someone.
Froyoh 9y ago
Configuring your partitions and storage is scary and dangerous
- adamtulinius 9y ago
  On the flip side a friend of mine can literally reinstall her OS from backup in about 15 minutes, including all applications and their configuration.
  - adamtulinius 9y ago
    Woops, was meant as reply to the GP.
- nextos 9y ago
  Why? It's very simple. But if you're afraid of CLI tools, you can always partition with GParted.
peller 9y ago
To each their own I guess. I strongly prefer their method. It let's me set up my system exactly how I want without having to fight with some GUI installer to make sure it doesn't do anything stupid. And hey, you might even learn a thing or two about how an OS works - partitions, boot loaders, init systems, it's all really quite important to understand when things go wrong and you need to recover your system manually.
- a012 9y ago
  I'm fine with setting up my boxes with Debian Installer and its preseed way, and it's straight forward and too easy to configure. But Nix is something else.
- overcast 9y ago
  Learning how an OS works really is not quite important, except for a very small minority concerned with that field. That defeats the entire purpose of an OS, which is to provide an easy to use interface between hardware and software. I can't imagine telling anyone in my family this, and having them take me seriously. If they even understand what I just said.
  - adamtulinius 9y ago
    And the result is that the general population can't fix even simple issues with their computers, and not even reinstall an OS. Knowledge is great, but ignorance is bliss, I suppose :P
    - overcast 9y ago
      People shouldn't be responsible for knowing how to fix every piece of technology in their life. I doubt Linus could rebuild his car engine. I mean, everyone should know how to fix their ever increasingly complex car right? We have industrialized farming, so we're not spending our entire lives growing our own food, and hunting our own animals. This is how the world works. Should they know the basics of computer usage? Sure. Maybe if reinstalling a computer was one click of a button they should. But NixOS is so far beyond that, I wouldn't touch it either. I've got plenty of other things to work on, rather than fighting with an OS.
      - adamtulinius 9y ago
        I'm not saying everybody needs to know everything about everything, but I'm really not happy about people's lack of IT knowledge in a world that is only getting even more technical. People really should know just a little bit about stuff they use every day.
zimbatm 9y ago
The list is a bit thorough and mixes a few possible scenarios. Basically what you need to do is: 1. Copy the ISO onto a USB drive and boot your laptop on it 2. Run `systemctl start display-manager` to start the GUI 3. Format the harddrive however you like using GParted 3b. EDIT: and mount the root drive to /mnt 4. Run `nixos-generate-config --root /mnt` to detect the hardware layout and generate an initial configuration.nix file 5. Open the /mnt/etc/nixos/configuration.nix file with your editor and edit to your convenience 6. Run `nixos-install` 7. Reboot
- ianai 9y ago
  Thank you, concision makes it easier for me to understand the process.
- soapdog 9y ago
  I've tried that a couple times on my own HP Proliant Server ML110 Gen9. The installation proceeds perfectly, no error whatsoever but no way I can get it to boot from the HD. I'm finding UEFI quite hard to debug when compared to MBR + GRUB... I find it odd that the pendrive boots fine, the installation happens well but the HD will not boot. I wish there were more tips for debugging UEFIon their guide.
notheguyouthink 9y ago
Agreed. I ran Nix for a while.. I love the concept of it, but I ended up bailing for a similar reason. I desired Nix because I wanted simplicity that immutability (conceptually) brings. Yet, the OS and especially dealing with non-immutable packages/etc were just way too much of a headache. I left Nix hoping that in a few years it would be far friendlier. It really feels like the future.
- nextos 9y ago
  I use NixOS daily, and the rough areas now are mostly lack of really thorough documentation and dealing with software that is not packaged for Nix and has an unclean way of getting built. It's surprising how many pieces of software have hardcoded paths to e.g. Python binaries. My temporary fix for the latter is using a Docker with Arch for quick and dirty one-time things.
  - AnIdiotOnTheNet 9y ago
    > the rough areas now are mostly lack of really thorough documentation and dealing with software that is not packaged for Nix So basically the same problems as every other Linux distribution? Only AppImage doesn't work out of the box either. The more things change the more they stay the same.
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
  - pxc 9y ago
    Did you know Flatpak support is on the way? I'm hoping that it can help fill the void for applications which haven't made it into Nixpkgs yet. (And maybe for things we can't build from source, as much as I try to stay away from those.) https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/pull/33371 https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/pull/33371
    - nextos 9y ago
      Yes, my use-case is more complex sadly. It's more about installing some scientific binaries which are generally really dirty to build, in a quick and easy way. I need them to reproduce other papers so I cannot stay away, sadly. I think a better FHS or Steam.Env would help me more.
emh68 9y ago
Some people enjoy that. Just look at Arch Linux.
jai_ 9y ago
Their install guide seems fairly standard for a minimal Linux distribution. They've even attempted to simplify it compared to what you would have to follow for an Arch install.
extr 9y ago
this is actually way more clear than the arch install "guide", which seem to have become hostile toward the idea of actually helping people in recent years.
- jolmg 9y ago
  You mean the text file in the home directory when installing? I found it very educational and easy to follow. It tells you how to configure e.g. the locale, the timezone, etc. as bare metal as possible, which makes it more reliable, and useful for other distros. Much more flexible and transparent than having an install wizard like they did before. Installing in a directory with pacstrap also made it very clear that it could be used for making archlinux containers. I love it.
  - extr 9y ago
    I was referring to the removal of the "Beginner's Guide" in the wiki, now replaced by the "Installation Guide" that has way less context. Which is fine if you already have a nontrivial amount of linux/arch experience and just want to glance at a list of To Dos when you install. But is it really too much "bloat" to have a single example partition layout? I get the community doesn't like having to hand hold people, but sometimes people learn best by just getting things up and running and not reading 15 wiki pages before they're able to understand what should be a straightfoward guide. /rant I honestly wasn't aware there was a text file in the home directory but it sounds like something pretty close to the Installation Guide, which is helpful and good to know, so thanks for that.

by a012 9y ago

fhood 9y ago

> The NixOS installer doesn’t do any partitioning or formatting yet, so you need to do that yourself. Use the following commands: Wow, you are not kidding. Edit: I could swear this comment was originally replying to someone.

Froyoh 9y ago

Configuring your partitions and storage is scary and dangerous

adamtulinius 9y ago
On the flip side a friend of mine can literally reinstall her OS from backup in about 15 minutes, including all applications and their configuration.
- adamtulinius 9y ago
  Woops, was meant as reply to the GP.
nextos 9y ago
Why? It's very simple. But if you're afraid of CLI tools, you can always partition with GParted.

peller 9y ago

To each their own I guess. I strongly prefer their method. It let's me set up my system exactly how I want without having to fight with some GUI installer to make sure it doesn't do anything stupid. And hey, you might even learn a thing or two about how an OS works - partitions, boot loaders, init systems, it's all really quite important to understand when things go wrong and you need to recover your system manually.

a012 9y ago
I'm fine with setting up my boxes with Debian Installer and its preseed way, and it's straight forward and too easy to configure. But Nix is something else.
overcast 9y ago
Learning how an OS works really is not quite important, except for a very small minority concerned with that field. That defeats the entire purpose of an OS, which is to provide an easy to use interface between hardware and software. I can't imagine telling anyone in my family this, and having them take me seriously. If they even understand what I just said.
- adamtulinius 9y ago
  And the result is that the general population can't fix even simple issues with their computers, and not even reinstall an OS. Knowledge is great, but ignorance is bliss, I suppose :P
  - overcast 9y ago
    People shouldn't be responsible for knowing how to fix every piece of technology in their life. I doubt Linus could rebuild his car engine. I mean, everyone should know how to fix their ever increasingly complex car right? We have industrialized farming, so we're not spending our entire lives growing our own food, and hunting our own animals. This is how the world works. Should they know the basics of computer usage? Sure. Maybe if reinstalling a computer was one click of a button they should. But NixOS is so far beyond that, I wouldn't touch it either. I've got plenty of other things to work on, rather than fighting with an OS.
    - adamtulinius 9y ago
      I'm not saying everybody needs to know everything about everything, but I'm really not happy about people's lack of IT knowledge in a world that is only getting even more technical. People really should know just a little bit about stuff they use every day.

zimbatm 9y ago

The list is a bit thorough and mixes a few possible scenarios. Basically what you need to do is: 1. Copy the ISO onto a USB drive and boot your laptop on it 2. Run `systemctl start display-manager` to start the GUI 3. Format the harddrive however you like using GParted 3b. EDIT: and mount the root drive to /mnt 4. Run `nixos-generate-config --root /mnt` to detect the hardware layout and generate an initial configuration.nix file 5. Open the /mnt/etc/nixos/configuration.nix file with your editor and edit to your convenience 6. Run `nixos-install` 7. Reboot

ianai 9y ago
Thank you, concision makes it easier for me to understand the process.
soapdog 9y ago
I've tried that a couple times on my own HP Proliant Server ML110 Gen9. The installation proceeds perfectly, no error whatsoever but no way I can get it to boot from the HD. I'm finding UEFI quite hard to debug when compared to MBR + GRUB... I find it odd that the pendrive boots fine, the installation happens well but the HD will not boot. I wish there were more tips for debugging UEFIon their guide.

notheguyouthink 9y ago

Agreed. I ran Nix for a while.. I love the concept of it, but I ended up bailing for a similar reason. I desired Nix because I wanted simplicity that immutability (conceptually) brings. Yet, the OS and especially dealing with non-immutable packages/etc were just way too much of a headache. I left Nix hoping that in a few years it would be far friendlier. It really feels like the future.

nextos 9y ago
I use NixOS daily, and the rough areas now are mostly lack of really thorough documentation and dealing with software that is not packaged for Nix and has an unclean way of getting built. It's surprising how many pieces of software have hardcoded paths to e.g. Python binaries. My temporary fix for the latter is using a Docker with Arch for quick and dirty one-time things.
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 9y ago
  > the rough areas now are mostly lack of really thorough documentation and dealing with software that is not packaged for Nix So basically the same problems as every other Linux distribution? Only AppImage doesn't work out of the box either. The more things change the more they stay the same.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
- pxc 9y ago
  Did you know Flatpak support is on the way? I'm hoping that it can help fill the void for applications which haven't made it into Nixpkgs yet. (And maybe for things we can't build from source, as much as I try to stay away from those.) https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/pull/33371 https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/pull/33371
  - nextos 9y ago
    Yes, my use-case is more complex sadly. It's more about installing some scientific binaries which are generally really dirty to build, in a quick and easy way. I need them to reproduce other papers so I cannot stay away, sadly. I think a better FHS or Steam.Env would help me more.

emh68 9y ago

Some people enjoy that. Just look at Arch Linux.

jai_ 9y ago

Their install guide seems fairly standard for a minimal Linux distribution. They've even attempted to simplify it compared to what you would have to follow for an Arch install.

extr 9y ago

this is actually way more clear than the arch install "guide", which seem to have become hostile toward the idea of actually helping people in recent years.

jolmg 9y ago
You mean the text file in the home directory when installing? I found it very educational and easy to follow. It tells you how to configure e.g. the locale, the timezone, etc. as bare metal as possible, which makes it more reliable, and useful for other distros. Much more flexible and transparent than having an install wizard like they did before. Installing in a directory with pacstrap also made it very clear that it could be used for making archlinux containers. I love it.
- extr 9y ago
  I was referring to the removal of the "Beginner's Guide" in the wiki, now replaced by the "Installation Guide" that has way less context. Which is fine if you already have a nontrivial amount of linux/arch experience and just want to glance at a list of To Dos when you install. But is it really too much "bloat" to have a single example partition layout? I get the community doesn't like having to hand hold people, but sometimes people learn best by just getting things up and running and not reading 15 wiki pages before they're able to understand what should be a straightfoward guide. /rant I honestly wasn't aware there was a text file in the home directory but it sounds like something pretty close to the Installation Guide, which is helpful and good to know, so thanks for that.