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Sounds like a great application for an e-ink display. No burn-in, low power, and can always emit as much light as the keys on the keyboard do (by front-illumina

by avhon1 9y ago

Sounds like a great application for an e-ink display. No burn-in, low power, and can always emit as much light as the keys on the keyboard do (by front-illuminating the bar when the keyboard backlight is on).

KillerRabbitt 9y ago
Do eink displays have decent pixel density yet? The last time I used an eink was in 2012 and looked terrible by modern standards
- jsheard 9y ago
  They do, the newest e-ink Kindles have 300ppi screens which puts them close to iPhone/iPad Retina display density. Most e-readers were only 167ppi in 2012, with 212ppi just starting to hit the market in premium models.
DaiPlusPlus 9y ago
The 2014 ThinkPad X1 Carbon had an e-ink touch strip instead of an F-row (exactly like the MBP does). It didn’t work very well: poor display contrast, hard to see in bright daylight, can’t feel for keys, slow response time, etc. They switched back to real keys for the 2015 model release. ...that’s why Apple’s adoption of it surprised me the most: I saw how it on the ThinkPad added no value, and while Apple has greater integration and will undoubtedly encourage third-party devs to use it - it will still be too fiddly and complicated. I think Apple’s too proud to kill it off in just one project cycle - but I can’t see Apple’s management justifying continued investment of time into maintaining it. The fact they didn’t include it in their latest desktop keyboard (for a Pro users no-less!) says something.
- Izkata 9y ago
  > hard to see in bright daylight Huh? One of the defining features of e-ink is that it's easier to read in bright light, compared to a regular screen...
  - DaiPlusPlus 9y ago
    It had a smooth plastic window over it without any matte-finish or anti-reflective coating. Couple that with how the keyboard area is often in the shade made it hard to see.
- jchw 9y ago
  I owned one of those X1 Carbons and that was absolutely not e-ink. It was merely some LED lights over a touch surface. All the possible configurations were physically cut out; you couldn't display arbitrary stuff on it. Even for what it did do, it sucked, and made the entire layout more awkward.
Pxtl 9y ago
E-inks respond too slow for good touch feedback though so you'd want to have it be clicky or vibrate or something, which adds a moving part.
- seanmcdirmid 9y ago
  Vibration could be added via a speaker, not exactly a moving part. This is how Apple's current vibration scheme works, at any rate.
  - gargravarr 9y ago
    Not entirely accurate, the Force Touch device uses a linear motor to accelerate a small mass to 'thump' into its housing. In principle it's similar to a speaker, but in implementation it's very different (a speaker voice cone never intentionally impacts its housing, for example).
    - gargravarr 9y ago
      *Taptic Engine, I think I meant
- blixt 9y ago
  I thought so too but the Pebble Time had snappy, colorful animations[1] that looked really good, and changed my perception completely on what is possible with e-ink. With regards to touch feedback, MacBooks come with a pretty hefty “haptic engine” already so it should be possible. [1] https://youtu.be/v-vP9D062aM https://youtu.be/v-vP9D062aM
  - joecool1029 9y ago
    >I thought so too but the Pebble Time had snappy, colorful animations[1] that looked really good, and changed my perception completely on what is possible with e-ink. Except they didn't use e-ink. Pebble used transreflective LCD's. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transflective_liquid-crystal_display https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transflective_liquid-crystal_d...

by avhon1 9y ago

KillerRabbitt 9y ago

Do eink displays have decent pixel density yet? The last time I used an eink was in 2012 and looked terrible by modern standards

jsheard 9y ago
They do, the newest e-ink Kindles have 300ppi screens which puts them close to iPhone/iPad Retina display density. Most e-readers were only 167ppi in 2012, with 212ppi just starting to hit the market in premium models.

DaiPlusPlus 9y ago

The 2014 ThinkPad X1 Carbon had an e-ink touch strip instead of an F-row (exactly like the MBP does). It didn’t work very well: poor display contrast, hard to see in bright daylight, can’t feel for keys, slow response time, etc. They switched back to real keys for the 2015 model release. ...that’s why Apple’s adoption of it surprised me the most: I saw how it on the ThinkPad added no value, and while Apple has greater integration and will undoubtedly encourage third-party devs to use it - it will still be too fiddly and complicated. I think Apple’s too proud to kill it off in just one project cycle - but I can’t see Apple’s management justifying continued investment of time into maintaining it. The fact they didn’t include it in their latest desktop keyboard (for a Pro users no-less!) says something.

Izkata 9y ago
> hard to see in bright daylight Huh? One of the defining features of e-ink is that it's easier to read in bright light, compared to a regular screen...
- DaiPlusPlus 9y ago
  It had a smooth plastic window over it without any matte-finish or anti-reflective coating. Couple that with how the keyboard area is often in the shade made it hard to see.
jchw 9y ago
I owned one of those X1 Carbons and that was absolutely not e-ink. It was merely some LED lights over a touch surface. All the possible configurations were physically cut out; you couldn't display arbitrary stuff on it. Even for what it did do, it sucked, and made the entire layout more awkward.

Pxtl 9y ago

E-inks respond too slow for good touch feedback though so you'd want to have it be clicky or vibrate or something, which adds a moving part.

seanmcdirmid 9y ago
Vibration could be added via a speaker, not exactly a moving part. This is how Apple's current vibration scheme works, at any rate.
- gargravarr 9y ago
  Not entirely accurate, the Force Touch device uses a linear motor to accelerate a small mass to 'thump' into its housing. In principle it's similar to a speaker, but in implementation it's very different (a speaker voice cone never intentionally impacts its housing, for example).
  - gargravarr 9y ago
    *Taptic Engine, I think I meant
blixt 9y ago
I thought so too but the Pebble Time had snappy, colorful animations[1] that looked really good, and changed my perception completely on what is possible with e-ink. With regards to touch feedback, MacBooks come with a pretty hefty “haptic engine” already so it should be possible. [1] https://youtu.be/v-vP9D062aM https://youtu.be/v-vP9D062aM
- joecool1029 9y ago
  >I thought so too but the Pebble Time had snappy, colorful animations[1] that looked really good, and changed my perception completely on what is possible with e-ink. Except they didn't use e-ink. Pebble used transreflective LCD's. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transflective_liquid-crystal_display https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transflective_liquid-crystal_d...