6 ms·

How trolls are born: Research on why people turn bad when they go online

30 points by ohjeez 9y ago

commandlinefan 9y ago
The article assumes that everybody who "trolls" online is being deliberately vicious - and maybe the author was focused on discussing the people who really are trying to cause hurt online. On the flip side, though, I've learned to be very, very careful how I phrase things online because it's (apparently) really easy for somebody to misconstrue something that you said and assume that you meant offense.
- freedomben 9y ago
  Completely agree, especially in diverse communities (such as HN) where people are coming from sometimes wildly different paradigms to exchange ideas in an inefficient medium that omits all non-verbal communication (which I was talk in a communication class can be 80% of inter-personal communication). I also wonder how much is because people don't read. I sometimes get replies to comments that don't even make sense based on what I said. People jump to conclusions and read what they think is being said rather than what is actually being said.
- flounders 9y ago
  That's definitely one aspect to it. When I played CS:GO briefly, some of the players are just down right toxic. I don't know if it is because they deliberately want to hurt people or they just think it's perfectly fine kidding around like that, but I just stopped playing. Other games have that element to them too, but CS:GO just seemed to have a lot more of it.
  - krageon 9y ago
    I think you'll find almost every community of a competitive game eventually turns into a mostly toxic one. I don't really understand why (it seems a little reductionist to say that most people are toxic and therefore as a community grows most of it will tend towards being toxic), but I keep seeing it no matter what kind of game it is (RTS, MOBA, RPG, etc)
    - nuclx 9y ago
      They're dissatisfied with their performance measured by the time they put in. In turn team mates are blamed for hindering their progress in the ranking system.
      - wolfgke 9y ago
        I would even tend to generalize: The strong competitiveness of the game (or other places that are very competitive) is literally an incubator to make people very toxic towards each other.
- PeterStuer 9y ago
  I've even noticed snipe framing on HN. Replies being added very late to a comment, that completely misrepresent and negatively frame your statements leaving you with no retort.
- batty_alex 9y ago
  You're playing apologist here and attempting to swat away responsibility in your final sentence. The article discusses death threats, harassment, and threats of violence. Your argument is that maybe they aren't deliberately doing those things? Sorry but, they're doing it on purpose. When they discuss "trolling", the term is a form of purposefully attempting to enrage the victim. They're not innocent commenters posting on the internet.
  - wolfgke 9y ago
    > The article discusses death threats, harassment, and threats of violence. SJWs tend to be very creative in redefining "harassment" all the time.
russdpale 9y ago
The definition of an internet troll has been tainted badly. Everyone thinks it means going on twitter or facebook or reddit and being an ass hole. That is what used to be called "flaming" in old internet jargon, but now a days it should be ushered under the umbrella term of "shitposting". Instead, it has been related to trolling, I feel like because primarily many people don't understand what a true internet troll is. A troll is simply someone who infiltrates a social group by ingratiating themselves into the group by some manner, and then works to decisively split the group in two with inner political turmoil before "disappearing". This entire scheme is much easier to perform online with relative anonymity where none of the other cues that humans might use to sniff out a troll in their group are present, such as reading body language or by hearing antagonistic speech patterns. A clever and witty actor with a strong grasp of the target language can manipulate peer groups and break a social group apart rather effectively. This is more difficult in real life although there is precedent for real human social trolls: the Khans of Mongolia used them to great affect in towns and villages they planned to raid. Sometimes the Mongols didn't even need to fight when they got to the town. Anyways, I don't really have any objection to the article per say, but its a pet peeve of mine. Know your internet jargon m8s!
- romanovcode 9y ago
  I think your interpretation of "internet troll" is way too narrow and therefore not correct. IMO troll is someone on the internet who just want's to trigger some emotional response from other peers (usually negative). That's it.
  - owlninja 9y ago
    Agreed, that is a very tight definition that I've never heard of. I just remember it always being used for someone saying things they didn't really believe just to get a group of people riled up.
  - russdpale 9y ago
    It is an older, but I believe more correct definition of the word. It is a small, insignificant quibble, but I think it is important. What else do we call a "classical" internet troll? A Russian?
jabgrabdthrow 9y ago
Anonymity lets you induce cognitive dissonance in people you disagree with without real life social consequences. The troll derives pleasure not just from anger or frustration, but knowing they’ve left a logical knot which will require untangling a whole region of knowledge.

30 points by ohjeez 9y ago

The article assumes that everybody who "trolls" online is being deliberately vicious - and maybe the author was focused on discussing the people who really are trying to cause hurt online. On the flip side, though, I've learned to be very, very careful how I phrase things online because it's (apparently) really easy for somebody to misconstrue something that you said and assume that you meant offense.

freedomben 9y ago
Completely agree, especially in diverse communities (such as HN) where people are coming from sometimes wildly different paradigms to exchange ideas in an inefficient medium that omits all non-verbal communication (which I was talk in a communication class can be 80% of inter-personal communication). I also wonder how much is because people don't read. I sometimes get replies to comments that don't even make sense based on what I said. People jump to conclusions and read what they think is being said rather than what is actually being said.
flounders 9y ago
That's definitely one aspect to it. When I played CS:GO briefly, some of the players are just down right toxic. I don't know if it is because they deliberately want to hurt people or they just think it's perfectly fine kidding around like that, but I just stopped playing. Other games have that element to them too, but CS:GO just seemed to have a lot more of it.
- krageon 9y ago
  I think you'll find almost every community of a competitive game eventually turns into a mostly toxic one. I don't really understand why (it seems a little reductionist to say that most people are toxic and therefore as a community grows most of it will tend towards being toxic), but I keep seeing it no matter what kind of game it is (RTS, MOBA, RPG, etc)
  - nuclx 9y ago
    They're dissatisfied with their performance measured by the time they put in. In turn team mates are blamed for hindering their progress in the ranking system.
    - wolfgke 9y ago
      I would even tend to generalize: The strong competitiveness of the game (or other places that are very competitive) is literally an incubator to make people very toxic towards each other.
PeterStuer 9y ago
I've even noticed snipe framing on HN. Replies being added very late to a comment, that completely misrepresent and negatively frame your statements leaving you with no retort.
batty_alex 9y ago
You're playing apologist here and attempting to swat away responsibility in your final sentence. The article discusses death threats, harassment, and threats of violence. Your argument is that maybe they aren't deliberately doing those things? Sorry but, they're doing it on purpose. When they discuss "trolling", the term is a form of purposefully attempting to enrage the victim. They're not innocent commenters posting on the internet.
- wolfgke 9y ago
  > The article discusses death threats, harassment, and threats of violence. SJWs tend to be very creative in redefining "harassment" all the time.

russdpale 9y ago

The definition of an internet troll has been tainted badly. Everyone thinks it means going on twitter or facebook or reddit and being an ass hole. That is what used to be called "flaming" in old internet jargon, but now a days it should be ushered under the umbrella term of "shitposting". Instead, it has been related to trolling, I feel like because primarily many people don't understand what a true internet troll is. A troll is simply someone who infiltrates a social group by ingratiating themselves into the group by some manner, and then works to decisively split the group in two with inner political turmoil before "disappearing". This entire scheme is much easier to perform online with relative anonymity where none of the other cues that humans might use to sniff out a troll in their group are present, such as reading body language or by hearing antagonistic speech patterns. A clever and witty actor with a strong grasp of the target language can manipulate peer groups and break a social group apart rather effectively. This is more difficult in real life although there is precedent for real human social trolls: the Khans of Mongolia used them to great affect in towns and villages they planned to raid. Sometimes the Mongols didn't even need to fight when they got to the town. Anyways, I don't really have any objection to the article per say, but its a pet peeve of mine. Know your internet jargon m8s!

romanovcode 9y ago
I think your interpretation of "internet troll" is way too narrow and therefore not correct. IMO troll is someone on the internet who just want's to trigger some emotional response from other peers (usually negative). That's it.
- owlninja 9y ago
  Agreed, that is a very tight definition that I've never heard of. I just remember it always being used for someone saying things they didn't really believe just to get a group of people riled up.
- russdpale 9y ago
  It is an older, but I believe more correct definition of the word. It is a small, insignificant quibble, but I think it is important. What else do we call a "classical" internet troll? A Russian?

jabgrabdthrow 9y ago

Anonymity lets you induce cognitive dissonance in people you disagree with without real life social consequences. The troll derives pleasure not just from anger or frustration, but knowing they’ve left a logical knot which will require untangling a whole region of knowledge.