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> the Linux Desktop really isn't that great That's not true. Stick to the 'user friendly' popular ones (Ubuntu, Mint, etc) and they're very solid now. Sure,

> the Linux Desktop really isn't that great That's not true. Stick to the 'user friendly' popular ones (Ubuntu, Mint, etc) and they're very solid now. Sure, edge cases are still a problem, but for gaming - if supported - not really anything more problematic than Windows. When did you last try Linux?

dsego 9y ago
Ackchyually?
AnIdiotOnTheNet 9y ago
I use Linux all the time, Linux Desktop much less often but I keep an eye on things in that sphere. It makes a great web kiosk, and as long as you color inside the lines of what the distro developers intended as a use case you're fine, but as soon as you try to make any changes to fit your workflow you get buried in broken overengineered crap and outdated documentation.
- klez 9y ago
  I get the same impression when I have to use Windows. What in Debian amounts to "change a configuration file" is usually "install this (proprietary) program" in Windows. I guess it's a matter of habit and expectations then?
scaryspooky 9y ago
I currently run a Linux desktop (Ubuntu 17.10) on Apple hardware. The list of problems: The camera fails to work consistently (the driver does not always load) Audio fails to work consistently (restarting pulse fixes this) Closing the laptop lid initially sleeps, but then the laptop wakes up a few minutes later for no reason (so I wrote a script to disable all the events that can wake the laptop up, but this in turn causes it to not wake up at all sometimes when I actually want it to) kde plasmashell will crash if I try to use ffplay, and doesn't reliably recover so I end up needing to restart my session which loses any work I hadn't saved since I can't switch windows These are all problems I have never experienced with my Windows laptop, nor macOS. Anecdotes obviously, but I've been trying to go only Linux for the past decade and never felt like I could reliably do so.
- madez 9y ago
  > I currently run a Linux desktop (Ubuntu 17.10) on Apple hardware. It's important to buy hardware that is supported and properly documented by the manufacturer. Apple is not one of those that do that.
  - scaryspooky 9y ago
    If these were issues I've only encountered on the Apple hardware I would agree. I've encountered issues like these on every computer I've put Linux on, which is every computer I've built or bought since 1996.
    - jezbo3939 9y ago
      Be me Perform vanilla install of Windows 10 on new desktop build Watch it sporadically work with Logitech 920 webcam Watch it randomly not load network device at boot Watch it show me a blank login screen with no ability to pick a user or enter pwd Watch it “lose” a USB connected Brother laser printer Watch it ... I’m pretty sure Windows and Apple get a pass on quality because we’re low level conditioned to give Big Corp products a pass The Ubuntu + i3 setup I’ve been rolling for years now has not given me any more or less odd ball problems than Win or OSX OSX on my work laptop reboots every day. I have Firefox and Slack and some stuff installed via homebrew, on a 2017 MacBook from work. Every morning “your computer is recovering from a shutdown”. Even if I shut the software. IT hasn’t figured it out, Apple can’t and won’t replace hardware that tests ok Watch FaceTime just stop doing anything every call I make with it Oooh and the WiFi issues with Mac that I haven’t had with Linux since wpa_supplicant was managed by hand But Apple has their “just works” rep. I mean it “just loads” then just needs a reload everyday seems more accurate I’m not saying Linux isn’t a quirky chore I’m saying it doesn’t seem any quirkier than the competition going off my daily experiences with all 3
      - PascLeRasc 9y ago
        I haven't seen the quirk where Linux doesn't allow typing full sentences before.
CaptSpify 9y ago
I'm a die-hard Linux user, but I completely disagree. Wifi is still terrible, video-card support is still terrible, audio is still terrible, we still can't get sleep to properly function, etc. I really want Linux to be the go-to OS that people install, but the criticisms of it tend to be pretty valid, IME.
- Zardoz84 9y ago
  The last time that I had issues with the Wifi card on Windows, was like 8 years ago. Sleep function works better that Windows. I don't get blue screens when I wake up, like windows does. Also, the time since I boot to get ready to do something, is far better on Linux that on Windows. Also, I can output sound at same time by HDMI and to the sound card out put. I can't do that on Windows! And Video card support, with AMD, it's at the same level that Windows.
  - CaptSpify 9y ago
    I'm glad things work for you. I'm not at all saying that they never work right, but that they often enough don't work right to the point that complaining about their lack of quality is justified. Just because something works for your setup doesn't mean that it works for everyone else's. > And Video card support, with AMD, it's at the same level that Windows. I haven't used Windows in years, but if that is the case, Windows must have gotten way worse. I can't say my experience with any video-card vendor has been smooth on Linux.
  - AnIdiotOnTheNet 9y ago
    And this right here is why Linux never really gets any better. Someone posts legitimate complaints, someone else comes out of the woodwork saying "works for me!", dismisses those complaints, and wonders why nobody gives a shit about their desktop platform.
- ac29 9y ago
  Curious what exact issues you are having, I am also a die-hard linux user (nearly 20 years of it being my primary Desktop platform for personal use, and almost 10 years for Work as well). I have 0 issues with wifi/graphics/sound/sleep, and haven't for at least 5 years or so. My recipe for success lately is: use all Intel hardware for major components (CPU/GPU/Net), use Business grade hardware (I run Thinkpads and Optiplex desktops at the moment), and stick to a rolling release distro or otherwise frequently updated one (I use Arch, there are probably plenty of other good options, but don't try to run a 2 year old LTS distro on 2 month old hardware if you don't want a headache).
emptyfile 9y ago
Neither WiFi nor Bluetooth worked on my last 3 Ubuntu laptops, for most people that right there would be enough to throw it in the trash.
cheez 9y ago
This is true. I use Ubuntu on a custom built machine (where I verified hardware before purchasing) and play Rocket League all the time. My son thinks it plays much better on Linux than Windows, as do I. If only CoD WW2 was available on Linux, I'd actually play it :(
jsight 9y ago
I use a Linux desktop every day and love it. Nevertheless, I can't help but laugh at the fact that you basically just suggested for him to try another distro. More seriously, the reason that suggestion is so common is because it does sometimes work out and I can't blame you for pointing that out.

dsego 9y ago

Ackchyually?

AnIdiotOnTheNet 9y ago

I use Linux all the time, Linux Desktop much less often but I keep an eye on things in that sphere. It makes a great web kiosk, and as long as you color inside the lines of what the distro developers intended as a use case you're fine, but as soon as you try to make any changes to fit your workflow you get buried in broken overengineered crap and outdated documentation.

klez 9y ago
I get the same impression when I have to use Windows. What in Debian amounts to "change a configuration file" is usually "install this (proprietary) program" in Windows. I guess it's a matter of habit and expectations then?

scaryspooky 9y ago

I currently run a Linux desktop (Ubuntu 17.10) on Apple hardware. The list of problems: The camera fails to work consistently (the driver does not always load) Audio fails to work consistently (restarting pulse fixes this) Closing the laptop lid initially sleeps, but then the laptop wakes up a few minutes later for no reason (so I wrote a script to disable all the events that can wake the laptop up, but this in turn causes it to not wake up at all sometimes when I actually want it to) kde plasmashell will crash if I try to use ffplay, and doesn't reliably recover so I end up needing to restart my session which loses any work I hadn't saved since I can't switch windows These are all problems I have never experienced with my Windows laptop, nor macOS. Anecdotes obviously, but I've been trying to go only Linux for the past decade and never felt like I could reliably do so.

madez 9y ago
> I currently run a Linux desktop (Ubuntu 17.10) on Apple hardware. It's important to buy hardware that is supported and properly documented by the manufacturer. Apple is not one of those that do that.
- scaryspooky 9y ago
  If these were issues I've only encountered on the Apple hardware I would agree. I've encountered issues like these on every computer I've put Linux on, which is every computer I've built or bought since 1996.
  - jezbo3939 9y ago
    Be me Perform vanilla install of Windows 10 on new desktop build Watch it sporadically work with Logitech 920 webcam Watch it randomly not load network device at boot Watch it show me a blank login screen with no ability to pick a user or enter pwd Watch it “lose” a USB connected Brother laser printer Watch it ... I’m pretty sure Windows and Apple get a pass on quality because we’re low level conditioned to give Big Corp products a pass The Ubuntu + i3 setup I’ve been rolling for years now has not given me any more or less odd ball problems than Win or OSX OSX on my work laptop reboots every day. I have Firefox and Slack and some stuff installed via homebrew, on a 2017 MacBook from work. Every morning “your computer is recovering from a shutdown”. Even if I shut the software. IT hasn’t figured it out, Apple can’t and won’t replace hardware that tests ok Watch FaceTime just stop doing anything every call I make with it Oooh and the WiFi issues with Mac that I haven’t had with Linux since wpa_supplicant was managed by hand But Apple has their “just works” rep. I mean it “just loads” then just needs a reload everyday seems more accurate I’m not saying Linux isn’t a quirky chore I’m saying it doesn’t seem any quirkier than the competition going off my daily experiences with all 3
    - PascLeRasc 9y ago
      I haven't seen the quirk where Linux doesn't allow typing full sentences before.

CaptSpify 9y ago

I'm a die-hard Linux user, but I completely disagree. Wifi is still terrible, video-card support is still terrible, audio is still terrible, we still can't get sleep to properly function, etc. I really want Linux to be the go-to OS that people install, but the criticisms of it tend to be pretty valid, IME.

Zardoz84 9y ago
The last time that I had issues with the Wifi card on Windows, was like 8 years ago. Sleep function works better that Windows. I don't get blue screens when I wake up, like windows does. Also, the time since I boot to get ready to do something, is far better on Linux that on Windows. Also, I can output sound at same time by HDMI and to the sound card out put. I can't do that on Windows! And Video card support, with AMD, it's at the same level that Windows.
- CaptSpify 9y ago
  I'm glad things work for you. I'm not at all saying that they never work right, but that they often enough don't work right to the point that complaining about their lack of quality is justified. Just because something works for your setup doesn't mean that it works for everyone else's. > And Video card support, with AMD, it's at the same level that Windows. I haven't used Windows in years, but if that is the case, Windows must have gotten way worse. I can't say my experience with any video-card vendor has been smooth on Linux.
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 9y ago
  And this right here is why Linux never really gets any better. Someone posts legitimate complaints, someone else comes out of the woodwork saying "works for me!", dismisses those complaints, and wonders why nobody gives a shit about their desktop platform.
ac29 9y ago
Curious what exact issues you are having, I am also a die-hard linux user (nearly 20 years of it being my primary Desktop platform for personal use, and almost 10 years for Work as well). I have 0 issues with wifi/graphics/sound/sleep, and haven't for at least 5 years or so. My recipe for success lately is: use all Intel hardware for major components (CPU/GPU/Net), use Business grade hardware (I run Thinkpads and Optiplex desktops at the moment), and stick to a rolling release distro or otherwise frequently updated one (I use Arch, there are probably plenty of other good options, but don't try to run a 2 year old LTS distro on 2 month old hardware if you don't want a headache).

emptyfile 9y ago

Neither WiFi nor Bluetooth worked on my last 3 Ubuntu laptops, for most people that right there would be enough to throw it in the trash.

cheez 9y ago

This is true. I use Ubuntu on a custom built machine (where I verified hardware before purchasing) and play Rocket League all the time. My son thinks it plays much better on Linux than Windows, as do I. If only CoD WW2 was available on Linux, I'd actually play it :(

jsight 9y ago

I use a Linux desktop every day and love it. Nevertheless, I can't help but laugh at the fact that you basically just suggested for him to try another distro. More seriously, the reason that suggestion is so common is because it does sometimes work out and I can't blame you for pointing that out.