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I hope everyone is safe. Please, America: sort it out. Politics aside, it hurts to see this stuff happening again and again so needlessly.

oh_sigh 9y ago
Any ideas? Banning handguns and jilted lovers or angry people is a whole different ballgame than banning automatic weapons or the sort.
- DanBC 9y ago
  Any person who has a conviction for domestic assualt isn't allowed to own any type of gun Any person with TBI isn't allowed to own any type of gun Any person with drug or alcohol addiction isn't allowed to own any type of gun Those three things would cut down the numbers of these types of murders, which tend to be impulsive.
  - Cuuugi 9y ago
    I don't have a issue with the logic of your statements, however the implementation of them could be rather scary. Who is to say what a alcohol addiction entails? etc. etc.
    - DanBC 9y ago
      A litre of 40% ABV spirits per day, or equivalent. It's not that hard.
      - Cuuugi 9y ago
        Which then means you would have to register to buy alcohol. :S
  - oh_sigh 9y ago
    What percentage of gun murders are committed by people with TBI, domestic assault, or state-known drug or alcohol problems?
    - kevincrane 9y ago
      Mass shooters have a super high correlation with domestic abuse.
      - Density 9y ago
        So do cops.
      - ryanx435 9y ago
        Also being raised by single mothers.
    - DanBC 9y ago
      Each of these things is a much better predictor of violent behaviour than mental illness, which is the thing normally blamed.
- Cuuugi 9y ago
  Not to mention automatic weapons are essentially already banned. There's no rational debate to be had, since they only really seem to happen with bodies fresh in our minds. I don't have the right answer, or claim to, but i do know that making these types of decisions in a crisis, rarely works out.
  - celticninja 9y ago
    The decisions are not made in a crisis. The crisis is the impetus needed to get people to change their mind, its not like this will result in a law change. It may result in a new proposed law, which will be debated and voted on in due course. It wont be a knee jerk reaction but hopefully someday soon enough people will see one of these events as the start of the end of future mass slayings.
    - Cuuugi 9y ago
      I disagree. The media spotlight around the Stoneman Douglas high school students should be all you need to know. The fact that they have been elevated to a place they don't really belong (in the national spotlight) is to simply push a narrative. This is child abuse, and wrong. They want to push legislation to restrict the right to own firearms, when it really hasn't been considered that guns themselves might not be the problem. What makes a "mass shooter"? The gun just makes them a shooter. To fire indiscriminately clearly shows mental issues.
      - BenSahar 9y ago
        I think it's funny that people are so upset about some high school students voicing their opinions after experiencing a school shooting. I do agree with the idea that the US needs to fix its mental (and general) healthcare system. It's odd that the majority of the time that argument is used by the same group that wants and has tried to gut any attempts at improving the system.
        musage 9y ago
        > some high school students voicing their opinions They said "media spotlight", not "the fact that some students voiced their opinion". > It's odd that the majority of the time that argument is used by the same group that wants and has tried to gut any attempts at improving the system. It's odd in the same way the above is funny, namely in that you're just saying it.
- celticninja 9y ago
  Banning firearms in general worked for the UK and Australia, 2 places that have experienced this type of massacre while having a significant number of legally held firearms. Since the firearm bans there has been a huge reduction in these types of incidents. It is entirely possible to do the same in the USA, however it may take longer to remove all weapons simply because you have been so slow to respond to this problem. Basically when things like this happen and people think that the government are going to take their guns, a certain type of person will buy more guns, just in case. If there is a gun amnesty or ban then these people will not turn in their guns, it will be these guns that are then sold illegally or stolen and will perpetuate the problem for longer.
  - thatswrong0 9y ago
    Banning firearms in general won't work in America. There are already more guns than people in circulation, the right to own them is codified into the Constitution and requires an amendment to fix (and amendments are ridiculously hard to pass), and of course there's the huge section of the population that would probably rather die than let their right to own guns be infringed. Not to mention that we do have a giant border with Mexico to our south that would probably make any attempt to remove all guns from America pointless.
    - jazoom 9y ago
      >Banning firearms in general won't work in America. Obligatory "not with that attitude".
    - celticninja 9y ago
      >Banning firearms in general won't work in America. This is the go to reason that people give, but it just means they haven't tried. No one said it would be cheap or easy but it could be done. As for gun smuggling, the USA used to be the source of 80% of guns used in crimes in Canada and in Mexico it is 70%. https://www.quora.com/How-are-guns-smuggled-into-the-United-States https://www.quora.com/How-are-guns-smuggled-into-the-United-... https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/01/12/462781469/in-mexico-tens-of-thousands-of-illegal-guns-come-from-the-u-s https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/01/12/462781469... https://www.vox.com/2016/1/14/10771628/gun-violence-america-mexico https://www.vox.com/2016/1/14/10771628/gun-violence-america-... So actually a gun ban in the USA would help both Canada and Mexico with their gun problems. In Mexico many of these guns end up in the hands of the cartels who are much more willing to use them than your usual criminals, and whilst they would still probably be able to obtain weapons they would not be able to do so in the same sort of volume and they would also have trouble locating ammunition.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
biasforaction 9y ago
Send help!
galieos_ghost 9y ago
You're falling for the media hysteria. Control for population and demographics and the US has lower gun homicide rates than many European countries. In fact the lowest gun homicide rates are in the midwest where gun ownership is highest.
- dkns 9y ago
  Care to tell where you're getting this info from? Checking https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-r... If I sort by homicides US is above all european countries, so is if I sort by 'total' (although montenegro is right behind it)
  - galieos_ghost 9y ago
    That includes suicides, so take off around 70% of the US gun deaths.
    - dkns 9y ago
      Sort by homicide (which is what you were getting at in your original comment). US has 3.5 per 100.000 people. First European country is Montenegro which has 2.42 per 100.000, then Cyprus with 1.05. For example France is 0.21, Germany 0.07, Poland 0.04.
      - FireBeyond 9y ago
        The World Bank has it quite a bit higher for the US: 4.9 in 2015: https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/VC.IHR.PSRC.P5?locations=US https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/VC.IHR.PSRC.P5?location...
    - cmontella 9y ago
      So the US has a lower rate when you conveniently exclude a segment? Is that because you think suicide doesn't count because it's self inflicted? Would it surprise you to know many people who attempt suicide and survive later regret it, and many suicides could have been averted if a firearm wasn't readily available. I know a lot of people think someone who wants to kill them self can do so no matter what, but that simply isn't the case.
DoofusOfDeath 9y ago
I'm truly sorry that people (I assume) got hurt/killed with this. It may be worth keeping perspective that over 10,000 people in the U.S. died from drunk driving in 2016. School/workplace shootings are scary, but if we really care about saving the most lives, we have much bigger fish to fry.
- tehlike 9y ago
  Numbers may agree, but the psychological factor also needs to be taken into account. If you embed fear into peoples heart that their kids or family might get killed because of someone else when they are most vulnerable (schools, work place - places where we think we are safe) it is a different ball game. If you see shootings in airports or malls, it ruins it for everyone. Source: an immigrant from a country where bombings in city centres were part of daily life at some point.
  - jakeogh 9y ago
    It's textbook really. Gladio?
- FireBeyond 9y ago
  > It may be worth keeping perspective that over 10,000 people in the U.S. died from drunk driving in 2016. > but if we really care about saving the most lives, we have much bigger fish to fry. Given that "over 10,000 people" died from firearms (where that number is higher than the drunk driving number), I'm not sure how you figure this.
- koide 8y ago
  False dichotomy. How is that you can only work on only one front preventing unnecessary deaths?

oh_sigh 9y ago

Any ideas? Banning handguns and jilted lovers or angry people is a whole different ballgame than banning automatic weapons or the sort.

DanBC 9y ago
Any person who has a conviction for domestic assualt isn't allowed to own any type of gun Any person with TBI isn't allowed to own any type of gun Any person with drug or alcohol addiction isn't allowed to own any type of gun Those three things would cut down the numbers of these types of murders, which tend to be impulsive.
- Cuuugi 9y ago
  I don't have a issue with the logic of your statements, however the implementation of them could be rather scary. Who is to say what a alcohol addiction entails? etc. etc.
  - DanBC 9y ago
    A litre of 40% ABV spirits per day, or equivalent. It's not that hard.
    - Cuuugi 9y ago
      Which then means you would have to register to buy alcohol. :S
- oh_sigh 9y ago
  What percentage of gun murders are committed by people with TBI, domestic assault, or state-known drug or alcohol problems?
  - kevincrane 9y ago
    Mass shooters have a super high correlation with domestic abuse.
    - Density 9y ago
      So do cops.
    - ryanx435 9y ago
      Also being raised by single mothers.
  - DanBC 9y ago
    Each of these things is a much better predictor of violent behaviour than mental illness, which is the thing normally blamed.
Cuuugi 9y ago
Not to mention automatic weapons are essentially already banned. There's no rational debate to be had, since they only really seem to happen with bodies fresh in our minds. I don't have the right answer, or claim to, but i do know that making these types of decisions in a crisis, rarely works out.
- celticninja 9y ago
  The decisions are not made in a crisis. The crisis is the impetus needed to get people to change their mind, its not like this will result in a law change. It may result in a new proposed law, which will be debated and voted on in due course. It wont be a knee jerk reaction but hopefully someday soon enough people will see one of these events as the start of the end of future mass slayings.
  - Cuuugi 9y ago
    I disagree. The media spotlight around the Stoneman Douglas high school students should be all you need to know. The fact that they have been elevated to a place they don't really belong (in the national spotlight) is to simply push a narrative. This is child abuse, and wrong. They want to push legislation to restrict the right to own firearms, when it really hasn't been considered that guns themselves might not be the problem. What makes a "mass shooter"? The gun just makes them a shooter. To fire indiscriminately clearly shows mental issues.
    - BenSahar 9y ago
      I think it's funny that people are so upset about some high school students voicing their opinions after experiencing a school shooting. I do agree with the idea that the US needs to fix its mental (and general) healthcare system. It's odd that the majority of the time that argument is used by the same group that wants and has tried to gut any attempts at improving the system.
      - musage 9y ago
        > some high school students voicing their opinions They said "media spotlight", not "the fact that some students voiced their opinion". > It's odd that the majority of the time that argument is used by the same group that wants and has tried to gut any attempts at improving the system. It's odd in the same way the above is funny, namely in that you're just saying it.
celticninja 9y ago
Banning firearms in general worked for the UK and Australia, 2 places that have experienced this type of massacre while having a significant number of legally held firearms. Since the firearm bans there has been a huge reduction in these types of incidents. It is entirely possible to do the same in the USA, however it may take longer to remove all weapons simply because you have been so slow to respond to this problem. Basically when things like this happen and people think that the government are going to take their guns, a certain type of person will buy more guns, just in case. If there is a gun amnesty or ban then these people will not turn in their guns, it will be these guns that are then sold illegally or stolen and will perpetuate the problem for longer.
- thatswrong0 9y ago
  Banning firearms in general won't work in America. There are already more guns than people in circulation, the right to own them is codified into the Constitution and requires an amendment to fix (and amendments are ridiculously hard to pass), and of course there's the huge section of the population that would probably rather die than let their right to own guns be infringed. Not to mention that we do have a giant border with Mexico to our south that would probably make any attempt to remove all guns from America pointless.
  - jazoom 9y ago
    >Banning firearms in general won't work in America. Obligatory "not with that attitude".
  - celticninja 9y ago
    >Banning firearms in general won't work in America. This is the go to reason that people give, but it just means they haven't tried. No one said it would be cheap or easy but it could be done. As for gun smuggling, the USA used to be the source of 80% of guns used in crimes in Canada and in Mexico it is 70%. https://www.quora.com/How-are-guns-smuggled-into-the-United-States https://www.quora.com/How-are-guns-smuggled-into-the-United-... https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/01/12/462781469/in-mexico-tens-of-thousands-of-illegal-guns-come-from-the-u-s https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/01/12/462781469... https://www.vox.com/2016/1/14/10771628/gun-violence-america-mexico https://www.vox.com/2016/1/14/10771628/gun-violence-america-... So actually a gun ban in the USA would help both Canada and Mexico with their gun problems. In Mexico many of these guns end up in the hands of the cartels who are much more willing to use them than your usual criminals, and whilst they would still probably be able to obtain weapons they would not be able to do so in the same sort of volume and they would also have trouble locating ammunition.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]

biasforaction 9y ago

Send help!

galieos_ghost 9y ago

You're falling for the media hysteria. Control for population and demographics and the US has lower gun homicide rates than many European countries. In fact the lowest gun homicide rates are in the midwest where gun ownership is highest.

dkns 9y ago
Care to tell where you're getting this info from? Checking https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-r... If I sort by homicides US is above all european countries, so is if I sort by 'total' (although montenegro is right behind it)
- galieos_ghost 9y ago
  That includes suicides, so take off around 70% of the US gun deaths.
  - dkns 9y ago
    Sort by homicide (which is what you were getting at in your original comment). US has 3.5 per 100.000 people. First European country is Montenegro which has 2.42 per 100.000, then Cyprus with 1.05. For example France is 0.21, Germany 0.07, Poland 0.04.
    - FireBeyond 9y ago
      The World Bank has it quite a bit higher for the US: 4.9 in 2015: https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/VC.IHR.PSRC.P5?locations=US https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/VC.IHR.PSRC.P5?location...
  - cmontella 9y ago
    So the US has a lower rate when you conveniently exclude a segment? Is that because you think suicide doesn't count because it's self inflicted? Would it surprise you to know many people who attempt suicide and survive later regret it, and many suicides could have been averted if a firearm wasn't readily available. I know a lot of people think someone who wants to kill them self can do so no matter what, but that simply isn't the case.

DoofusOfDeath 9y ago

I'm truly sorry that people (I assume) got hurt/killed with this. It may be worth keeping perspective that over 10,000 people in the U.S. died from drunk driving in 2016. School/workplace shootings are scary, but if we really care about saving the most lives, we have much bigger fish to fry.

tehlike 9y ago
Numbers may agree, but the psychological factor also needs to be taken into account. If you embed fear into peoples heart that their kids or family might get killed because of someone else when they are most vulnerable (schools, work place - places where we think we are safe) it is a different ball game. If you see shootings in airports or malls, it ruins it for everyone. Source: an immigrant from a country where bombings in city centres were part of daily life at some point.
- jakeogh 9y ago
  It's textbook really. Gladio?
FireBeyond 9y ago
> It may be worth keeping perspective that over 10,000 people in the U.S. died from drunk driving in 2016. > but if we really care about saving the most lives, we have much bigger fish to fry. Given that "over 10,000 people" died from firearms (where that number is higher than the drunk driving number), I'm not sure how you figure this.
koide 8y ago
False dichotomy. How is that you can only work on only one front preventing unnecessary deaths?