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"Applies only to unmarried, childless women under 30 who live in cities" This is a trend that I have personally witnessed since joining the corporate workforce

"Applies only to unmarried, childless women under 30 who live in cities" This is a trend that I have personally witnessed since joining the corporate workforce as a recent college graduate living in a major city. In general I saw my female colleagues getting promoted faster and moving up faster than their male counterparts. In no way do I think it was favouritism, I just believe our senior management thought these young women were better prepared and organised than their male counterpart in their 20's. Whether or not this trend continues to higher levels of management remains to be seen.

PunchTornado 9y ago
I don't think you can justify your position "these young women were better prepared and organised than their male counterpart in their 20's". You say that women in their 20s are better at something than men in their 20s. I believe you know this is indefensible and if you would say the reverse you would get kicked out of your job.
- adventured 9y ago
  If it is true, it implies we need help programs for the young men who are being systematically discrminated against or otherwise oppressed by society. That includes new assistance programs to boost the rate of college graduation, since young men are so badly falling behind there (with projections for it to get much worse yet). Victim blaming would be a common response, to proclaim that it's the fault of these young men. The real question we must ask is: what is society doing to these young men to leave them so unprepared and falling behind, and how can society correct that injustice?
  - fjsolwmv 9y ago
    Peg Tyre wrote the classic book on this 10 years ago: https://www.amazon.com/Trouble-Boys-Surprising-Problems-Educators/dp/0307381293 https://www.amazon.com/Trouble-Boys-Surprising-Problems-Educ... It hasn't gotten a huge amount of follow-up traction in schools though. Also The New Jim Crow for a racial perspective that hits black men's employment prospects pretty hard. https://www.amazon.com/New-Jim-Crow-Incarceration-Colorblindness/dp/1595586431 https://www.amazon.com/New-Jim-Crow-Incarceration-Colorblind... BTW for folks who are concerned that feminist or women don't care about boys and men, these two leasing books are books written by women about the abuse boys and men face.
    - ShadowFaxSam 9y ago
      Always appreciate different news sources and ways to further educate myself. >It depends on the job. What you say applies mainly to Twitter-empowered employees at consumer-facing tech companies. It may depend on the job, one of them falls into the consumer facing tech company bucket (marketing). However my other job was an analyst role at a Financial Services company which you typically expect to be male dominated and where you might expect this sex discrimination to occur. It could have been the specific company I worked for (small sample size), but I found it to be a fair and equal opportunity hiring/promoting process at least for those early on in their career.
      - throwawayyx96 9y ago
        You worked as a financial analyst but yet don't seem to grasp the monumental difference between "women earn 80 percent less than men", which you cited above as the common narrative, and "women earn 80 percent of what men earn" or "women earn 20 percent less than men", which are two accurate descriptions of the common narrative.
        ShadowFaxSam 8y ago
        I have to laugh at this because I definitely noticed my error after I posted this. I was waiting for someone to comment on the mathematical error. Thank you, yes I understand how percentages work. Tip of the hat to you.
  - aninhumer 9y ago
    An alternative explanation, given the difference in numbers here, is that discrimination against women means that the only women remaining in the field are those who are the most competent and well prepared for the job, whereas less competent men are given the benefit of the doubt, and allowed into the same positions.
    - x220 9y ago
      Yes, what a clever, politically convenient explanation.
    - PunchTornado 9y ago
      Nope, the number of women and men in the workplace is almost the same in countries like Iceland, while the wage difference between males and females in their 20s is still there.
    - PunchTornado 9y ago
      The fact remains that there are more women going to college and getting a degree than men. So I don't understand why you say we don't need to balance that...
- fjsolwmv 9y ago
  It depends on the job. What you say applies mainly to Twitter-empowered employees at consumer-facing tech companies.
- freehunter 9y ago
  >You say that women in their 20s are better at something than men in their 20s I don't know what comment you read, but the comment I read said nothing remotely close to this. If you want to paraphrase what they said, it'd be more like "the very small sample of women I was exposed to in a small amount of time at one single professional workplace were better prepared for the job than the very small sample of men I was exposed to in a small amount of time at one single professional workplace". That says absolutely nothing about men and women in general, no matter how much baseless controversy you want to drum up.
  - ShadowFaxSam 9y ago
    Not trying to drum up any controversy and I fully admit it is a small sample size. As someone who falls in the demographic "Under 30 and Living in a Metropolitan City" I feel comfortable sharing some of my own personal and my friends experiences in their particular office as well. The dominant news story has always been the story women earn 80 percent less than men, but that was difficult to reconcile compared to what I was seeing in my work life. This article backed up some of those points. If you are looking for hard data to back up what I experienced, the article posted here is a perfect source.
    - freehunter 9y ago
      I wasn't accusing you of trying to drum up controversy, I was accusing PunchTornado of doing that. They were the one trying to force you to extrapolate your limited experience to the entire population and then use that strawman for target practice.
      - PunchTornado 9y ago
        Well, way say it then if you don't want to generalise it and give an explanation for the findings in the article. However you put it, your comment says that it may be that women in their 20s are more organized because in my company I observed this. If this statement is ok with you then fine, but it wouldn't be ok to say it loudly in some companies.
    - 9y ago
orclev 9y ago
Previous studies like these have generally shown that young attractive females make considerably more than male employees with a similar level of education and experience, but as you go up in age the trend reverses with older or less attractive female employees making less. Basically there is a bias, but it isn't so much gender in general as it is being attractive sexually (or not as the case may be). I'm not aware of any study that has tested if that applies to both genders (from the data it very clearly applies to females, but there may be a lesser effect applied to males as well), but that would be something interesting to look at. I suspect it would show there is a similar bias applied to males, but with a significantly smaller effect that's mostly lost in the noise.
- Shorel 9y ago
  > I suspect it would show there is a similar bias applied to males, but with a significantly smaller effect that's mostly lost in the noise. In that case height is a factor and the taller the male, the more he earns. https://www.apa.org/monitor/julaug04/standing.aspx https://www.apa.org/monitor/julaug04/standing.aspx

PunchTornado 9y ago

I don't think you can justify your position "these young women were better prepared and organised than their male counterpart in their 20's". You say that women in their 20s are better at something than men in their 20s. I believe you know this is indefensible and if you would say the reverse you would get kicked out of your job.

adventured 9y ago
If it is true, it implies we need help programs for the young men who are being systematically discrminated against or otherwise oppressed by society. That includes new assistance programs to boost the rate of college graduation, since young men are so badly falling behind there (with projections for it to get much worse yet). Victim blaming would be a common response, to proclaim that it's the fault of these young men. The real question we must ask is: what is society doing to these young men to leave them so unprepared and falling behind, and how can society correct that injustice?
- fjsolwmv 9y ago
  Peg Tyre wrote the classic book on this 10 years ago: https://www.amazon.com/Trouble-Boys-Surprising-Problems-Educators/dp/0307381293 https://www.amazon.com/Trouble-Boys-Surprising-Problems-Educ... It hasn't gotten a huge amount of follow-up traction in schools though. Also The New Jim Crow for a racial perspective that hits black men's employment prospects pretty hard. https://www.amazon.com/New-Jim-Crow-Incarceration-Colorblindness/dp/1595586431 https://www.amazon.com/New-Jim-Crow-Incarceration-Colorblind... BTW for folks who are concerned that feminist or women don't care about boys and men, these two leasing books are books written by women about the abuse boys and men face.
  - ShadowFaxSam 9y ago
    Always appreciate different news sources and ways to further educate myself. >It depends on the job. What you say applies mainly to Twitter-empowered employees at consumer-facing tech companies. It may depend on the job, one of them falls into the consumer facing tech company bucket (marketing). However my other job was an analyst role at a Financial Services company which you typically expect to be male dominated and where you might expect this sex discrimination to occur. It could have been the specific company I worked for (small sample size), but I found it to be a fair and equal opportunity hiring/promoting process at least for those early on in their career.
    - throwawayyx96 9y ago
      You worked as a financial analyst but yet don't seem to grasp the monumental difference between "women earn 80 percent less than men", which you cited above as the common narrative, and "women earn 80 percent of what men earn" or "women earn 20 percent less than men", which are two accurate descriptions of the common narrative.
      - ShadowFaxSam 8y ago
        I have to laugh at this because I definitely noticed my error after I posted this. I was waiting for someone to comment on the mathematical error. Thank you, yes I understand how percentages work. Tip of the hat to you.
- aninhumer 9y ago
  An alternative explanation, given the difference in numbers here, is that discrimination against women means that the only women remaining in the field are those who are the most competent and well prepared for the job, whereas less competent men are given the benefit of the doubt, and allowed into the same positions.
  - x220 9y ago
    Yes, what a clever, politically convenient explanation.
  - PunchTornado 9y ago
    Nope, the number of women and men in the workplace is almost the same in countries like Iceland, while the wage difference between males and females in their 20s is still there.
  - PunchTornado 9y ago
    The fact remains that there are more women going to college and getting a degree than men. So I don't understand why you say we don't need to balance that...
fjsolwmv 9y ago
It depends on the job. What you say applies mainly to Twitter-empowered employees at consumer-facing tech companies.
freehunter 9y ago
>You say that women in their 20s are better at something than men in their 20s I don't know what comment you read, but the comment I read said nothing remotely close to this. If you want to paraphrase what they said, it'd be more like "the very small sample of women I was exposed to in a small amount of time at one single professional workplace were better prepared for the job than the very small sample of men I was exposed to in a small amount of time at one single professional workplace". That says absolutely nothing about men and women in general, no matter how much baseless controversy you want to drum up.
- ShadowFaxSam 9y ago
  Not trying to drum up any controversy and I fully admit it is a small sample size. As someone who falls in the demographic "Under 30 and Living in a Metropolitan City" I feel comfortable sharing some of my own personal and my friends experiences in their particular office as well. The dominant news story has always been the story women earn 80 percent less than men, but that was difficult to reconcile compared to what I was seeing in my work life. This article backed up some of those points. If you are looking for hard data to back up what I experienced, the article posted here is a perfect source.
  - freehunter 9y ago
    I wasn't accusing you of trying to drum up controversy, I was accusing PunchTornado of doing that. They were the one trying to force you to extrapolate your limited experience to the entire population and then use that strawman for target practice.
    - PunchTornado 9y ago
      Well, way say it then if you don't want to generalise it and give an explanation for the findings in the article. However you put it, your comment says that it may be that women in their 20s are more organized because in my company I observed this. If this statement is ok with you then fine, but it wouldn't be ok to say it loudly in some companies.
  - 9y ago

orclev 9y ago

Previous studies like these have generally shown that young attractive females make considerably more than male employees with a similar level of education and experience, but as you go up in age the trend reverses with older or less attractive female employees making less. Basically there is a bias, but it isn't so much gender in general as it is being attractive sexually (or not as the case may be). I'm not aware of any study that has tested if that applies to both genders (from the data it very clearly applies to females, but there may be a lesser effect applied to males as well), but that would be something interesting to look at. I suspect it would show there is a similar bias applied to males, but with a significantly smaller effect that's mostly lost in the noise.

Shorel 9y ago
> I suspect it would show there is a similar bias applied to males, but with a significantly smaller effect that's mostly lost in the noise. In that case height is a factor and the taller the male, the more he earns. https://www.apa.org/monitor/julaug04/standing.aspx https://www.apa.org/monitor/julaug04/standing.aspx