5 ms·

Yahoo Dropped the ball on Google Instant in 2005

80 points by satishmreddy 16y ago

petervandijck 16y ago
Two points: 1. their UI was worse. If you don't do something like this right, it can be worse than doing nothing at all. 2. this depends largely on the correctness of the predictions. I assume Yahoo's predictions weren't half as good either. But still cool, yes.
- satishmreddy 16y ago
  Yup. Google did a lot of eye tracking studies to get the timing & UI right. But it means that if Yahoo invested in it, they might have had a shot at getting it right.
- cbsmith 16y ago
  1. Do you think in 5 years Yahoo might have been able to get it right? 2. The correctness of the predictions is actually a lot easier to do than you'd think. Yahoo's were pretty good.
joshu 16y ago
Written by my lead PM from Delicious.
- satishmreddy 16y ago
  I thought it was really cool that he did it 5 years ago.
zach 16y ago
This was big news back then... for interface developers. Its popularity influenced a lot of further development (including spurring Google's AJAX Search API, I believe) and established it as a popular paradigm. But I remember the version of it on Yahoo's then-beta search site, not this more extensive version on AllTheWeb. Here's an example: http://looksgoodworkswell.blogspot.com/2005/12/distracting-or-narrowing-looking.html http://looksgoodworkswell.blogspot.com/2005/12/distracting-o... I guess this was a more limited version of it, but it made a lot of sense to just pop up the most relevant result immediately.
cbsmith 16y ago
This wasn't the only innovation in Search that Yahoo dropped the ball on. There were at least a handful of cool ideas implemented at the company, but there was a prevailing attitude of wanting to let Google be the innovator and simply follow in their footsteps (talk about insane).
damncabbage 16y ago
As an ex-Yahoo!, this is exactly the sort of thing that cheesed me off while I was still working there. Best memory: not being allowed to use javascript-enhanced sliding panels for pagination, as the reduction in full page refreshes when navigating would have negatively impacted the Ad Impression stats. (That and the quarterly lay-offs. Good motivational tool, that one.)
- jyothi 16y ago
  One of the smart things in Instant for google with instant is positively impacting the Ad Impressions. (page load still not necessary - but ads refresh with the search results) I won't be surprised if the idea sparked more as an effort for 'How do we increase ad impressions? ' than search assistance for user.
aaronbrethorst 16y ago
At the risk of sounding like a troll, I think the title is unnecessarily specific: yahoo didn't just drop the ball on instant search, photo sharing, social bookmarking, x, or y, or z. They just dropped the ball. Period. As has been extensively documented, Yahoo is a tech company that has never wanted to be a tech company. Given a few more years, I'm sure they'll get their wish when they cease to be a company altogether.
joe_the_user 16y ago
I'm a fan of the idea of the Google interface. But I don't think it could have made up for an inferior search. If you don't get what you want, you won't care how quickly you get. By 2005, Yahoo had lost on the basic search infrastructure side and even revolutionary interface wouldn't change that. I'm not even much of a fan of the present implementation of type-ahead on Google. On my machine with an average broad band connection, all it does blank my old results till I've typed my new results. It could be because I'm using Firefox on Ubuntu. Still.
nostrademons 16y ago
I remember, back when Instant was first ramping up staffing from prototype to production levels, saying, "It's going to be a spectacular failure, but I am very, very glad that I work in a company where we can take risks like this." (In my defense, remember that chart Google released today showing the resource usage of various incarnations of Instant? It was in the Prototype stage at the time, with a total cost roughly 10-20x existing websearch. We were talking about having to build new datacenters to support it. And the UI was nowhere near as polished; I found it very jarring to use at the time.) I think there's a lesson for entrepreneurs in here somewhere: imagine where the technology could be, not where it is. Almost all innovations are pretty crappy when they first come out. That's a reason to improve them, not a reason to cancel them. Many problems that look impossible at first can be solved given enough engineering effort and creative thinking. I think it also says a lot about the management style of Larry & Sergei vs. the MBAs at Yahoo. There's a tendency, as companies get bigger, to look at things rationally and say "We have $X to lose if this fails, and some uncertain $Y to gain if it succeeds. The chance of success is low. Let's not do it." Larry & Sergei say "Okay, we know what the risks are. $X is high but manageable, and $Y is unknown but potentially big. Let's do it."
- btilly 16y ago
  You know the claim that you need to keep founders around because they know how to take risks and rethink your basic corporate assumptions? My opinion is that Larry and Sergei demonstrate that strength in spades at Google. Just look at the initiatives that they are pushing right now.
  - staunch 16y ago
    (When you post about Google articles I think you guys should remind people that (AFAIK) that you work there.)
    - nostrademons 16y ago
      I figured that was implied because (hopefully) nobody else would know about Instant when it was in the prototype stage. Plus the whole "that I work in..." part of the quote.
seldo 16y ago
This is a textbook example of Yahoo's problems as a company (I'm an ex-Yahoo). It's all there: poor execution (performance/quality), insufficient focus on the user experience, focus on per-search revenue rather than long term search share, and above all no appetite for risk. Say what you like about Bing, but they are at least throwing caution to the wind and trying new and different things.
- avar 16y ago
  The difference is that Bing has nothing to lose and everything to gain. They'd probably be a lot more complacent with Google's market share.
- edanm 16y ago
  I particularly liked their version of Image Search, with "infinitely scrolling" results. It took a while, but Google eventually copied it. That's what I love about competition: we users are the ones who win!
deleted 16y ago
[deleted]
Tycho 16y ago
I like the new Instant Search but I don't think I'll use it much. All my searches are conducted from search bars in Safari or Chrome where I just need to tap or tab to the bar and type. One thing that has changed my search habits recently though is the Safari 5 extension that lets you do mouseover searches where you highlight some text then a little window pops up with some search results and the start of the wikipedia page. So I can look something up without even typing or leaving the page/window. I take it this too has been done before? It's really 'game-changing' as far as my UX and interaction with search/ads goes.

80 points by satishmreddy 16y ago

Two points: 1. their UI was worse. If you don't do something like this right, it can be worse than doing nothing at all. 2. this depends largely on the correctness of the predictions. I assume Yahoo's predictions weren't half as good either. But still cool, yes.

satishmreddy 16y ago
Yup. Google did a lot of eye tracking studies to get the timing & UI right. But it means that if Yahoo invested in it, they might have had a shot at getting it right.
cbsmith 16y ago
1. Do you think in 5 years Yahoo might have been able to get it right? 2. The correctness of the predictions is actually a lot easier to do than you'd think. Yahoo's were pretty good.

joshu 16y ago

Written by my lead PM from Delicious.

satishmreddy 16y ago
I thought it was really cool that he did it 5 years ago.

zach 16y ago

This was big news back then... for interface developers. Its popularity influenced a lot of further development (including spurring Google's AJAX Search API, I believe) and established it as a popular paradigm. But I remember the version of it on Yahoo's then-beta search site, not this more extensive version on AllTheWeb. Here's an example: http://looksgoodworkswell.blogspot.com/2005/12/distracting-or-narrowing-looking.html http://looksgoodworkswell.blogspot.com/2005/12/distracting-o... I guess this was a more limited version of it, but it made a lot of sense to just pop up the most relevant result immediately.

cbsmith 16y ago

This wasn't the only innovation in Search that Yahoo dropped the ball on. There were at least a handful of cool ideas implemented at the company, but there was a prevailing attitude of wanting to let Google be the innovator and simply follow in their footsteps (talk about insane).

damncabbage 16y ago

As an ex-Yahoo!, this is exactly the sort of thing that cheesed me off while I was still working there. Best memory: not being allowed to use javascript-enhanced sliding panels for pagination, as the reduction in full page refreshes when navigating would have negatively impacted the Ad Impression stats. (That and the quarterly lay-offs. Good motivational tool, that one.)

jyothi 16y ago
One of the smart things in Instant for google with instant is positively impacting the Ad Impressions. (page load still not necessary - but ads refresh with the search results) I won't be surprised if the idea sparked more as an effort for 'How do we increase ad impressions? ' than search assistance for user.

aaronbrethorst 16y ago

At the risk of sounding like a troll, I think the title is unnecessarily specific: yahoo didn't just drop the ball on instant search, photo sharing, social bookmarking, x, or y, or z. They just dropped the ball. Period. As has been extensively documented, Yahoo is a tech company that has never wanted to be a tech company. Given a few more years, I'm sure they'll get their wish when they cease to be a company altogether.

joe_the_user 16y ago

I'm a fan of the idea of the Google interface. But I don't think it could have made up for an inferior search. If you don't get what you want, you won't care how quickly you get. By 2005, Yahoo had lost on the basic search infrastructure side and even revolutionary interface wouldn't change that. I'm not even much of a fan of the present implementation of type-ahead on Google. On my machine with an average broad band connection, all it does blank my old results till I've typed my new results. It could be because I'm using Firefox on Ubuntu. Still.

nostrademons 16y ago

I remember, back when Instant was first ramping up staffing from prototype to production levels, saying, "It's going to be a spectacular failure, but I am very, very glad that I work in a company where we can take risks like this." (In my defense, remember that chart Google released today showing the resource usage of various incarnations of Instant? It was in the Prototype stage at the time, with a total cost roughly 10-20x existing websearch. We were talking about having to build new datacenters to support it. And the UI was nowhere near as polished; I found it very jarring to use at the time.) I think there's a lesson for entrepreneurs in here somewhere: imagine where the technology could be, not where it is. Almost all innovations are pretty crappy when they first come out. That's a reason to improve them, not a reason to cancel them. Many problems that look impossible at first can be solved given enough engineering effort and creative thinking. I think it also says a lot about the management style of Larry & Sergei vs. the MBAs at Yahoo. There's a tendency, as companies get bigger, to look at things rationally and say "We have $X to lose if this fails, and some uncertain $Y to gain if it succeeds. The chance of success is low. Let's not do it." Larry & Sergei say "Okay, we know what the risks are. $X is high but manageable, and $Y is unknown but potentially big. Let's do it."

btilly 16y ago
You know the claim that you need to keep founders around because they know how to take risks and rethink your basic corporate assumptions? My opinion is that Larry and Sergei demonstrate that strength in spades at Google. Just look at the initiatives that they are pushing right now.
- staunch 16y ago
  (When you post about Google articles I think you guys should remind people that (AFAIK) that you work there.)
  - nostrademons 16y ago
    I figured that was implied because (hopefully) nobody else would know about Instant when it was in the prototype stage. Plus the whole "that I work in..." part of the quote.

seldo 16y ago

This is a textbook example of Yahoo's problems as a company (I'm an ex-Yahoo). It's all there: poor execution (performance/quality), insufficient focus on the user experience, focus on per-search revenue rather than long term search share, and above all no appetite for risk. Say what you like about Bing, but they are at least throwing caution to the wind and trying new and different things.

avar 16y ago
The difference is that Bing has nothing to lose and everything to gain. They'd probably be a lot more complacent with Google's market share.
edanm 16y ago
I particularly liked their version of Image Search, with "infinitely scrolling" results. It took a while, but Google eventually copied it. That's what I love about competition: we users are the ones who win!

deleted 16y ago

[deleted]

Tycho 16y ago

I like the new Instant Search but I don't think I'll use it much. All my searches are conducted from search bars in Safari or Chrome where I just need to tap or tab to the bar and type. One thing that has changed my search habits recently though is the Safari 5 extension that lets you do mouseover searches where you highlight some text then a little window pops up with some search results and the start of the wikipedia page. So I can look something up without even typing or leaving the page/window. I take it this too has been done before? It's really 'game-changing' as far as my UX and interaction with search/ads goes.