4 ms·

> Did World of Warcraft change gaming? The answer is "yes", which invalidates your whole argument. You should have picked a better example.

by Kiro 9y ago

wink 9y ago
Please elaborate how you think it changed gaming as a whole? If you think it shaped the whole landscape in general, as in.. transformed one niche genre to a mainstream genre - then yes. Maybe we're just talking different viewpoints. When did "online gaming" change gaming? (If we can agree that it did?) There were online MUDs in the 80s, but hardly anyone knew of them. I'd say the break through in online games were the mid- to end 90s in the upcoming web. (Quake et.al, I wouldn't say Doom already counts, but maybe my own experience is too prominent here) - and then again the MMO years - nothing of that changed the whole spectrum of gaming. On the other hand, maybe ever shift from 8bit to 16bit to 32bit changed gaming. Did the release of every breakthrough console change gaming? Maybe I just fail to see the revolutionary steps :)
- jamesrcole 9y ago
  > Please elaborate how you think it changed gaming as a whole? (not the person you're replying to) I've heard it said that it's because there's a strong MMO influence on many console games (which aren't MMOs) these days. (This isn't something I can personally comment on, as I haven't played that many modern console games, it's just what I've heard others say).
Shivetya 9y ago
If anything WOW has resisted the trend in MMOs where many have a well developed free to play mechanic backed up by unlocking individual features and content. Bioware's SWTOR does very well money wise with a much smaller player base. The cartel shop is which is nearly all cosmetic is a huge source of revenue. WOW is a relic from a previous generation of subscription only games which started in the 90s and faded out by 2010 with very few relying solely on subscriptions. The future is subscriptions for steady defined bonuses backed up with digital content which can be merely cosmetic or bonuses that don't exceed what a subscription grants and can even enhance that. See Wargaming, which produces games like World of Tanks, World of Warships, and more. You can be wholly free to play or you pay to ease the grind. Working this way you let players get midway into the game before the grind starts to be noticeable then sell them a means to ease it The pay to win loot box crowd may have finally killed their golden goose with relentless greed brought to the forefront by some very large titles by well known companies generating a lot of bad press. There are countless small games on tablets and phones which pull in large revenue for boosts and cosmetics.
- skate22 9y ago
  Wow is free to play untill level 20. You can play at level 20 for as long as you like, and upgrade / sub to unlock new content.
  - wink 9y ago
    I wouldn't call this free to play though. It's a free trial, so to speak. Even the most decidedly non-hardcore "regular" WoW players would reach Level 20 in a month easily, whereas there's enough content to keep you occupied for years even if you started just now.
- wink 9y ago
  There's been some rumours that SWTOR might be axed soonish, although I hope it's not true. You're also kind of glossing over the fact that SWTOR is still (rightfully) ridiculed in MMO circles for its initial F2P offering (click here to buy this additional hotbar!). IMHO the most healthy MMOs are still subscription-driven: WoW, EVE, and FFXIV.
- Fnoord 9y ago
  > The future is subscriptions for steady defined bonuses backed up with digital content which can be merely cosmetic or bonuses that don't exceed what a subscription grants and can even enhance that. Why? Subscriptions are not casual-friendly at all. Take GW2, for example. I bought the expansion in august, and had to stop playing in october. I might've logged in for the daily chest, but otherwise I haven't played. When I played, I bought some gold and cosmetic items. A few QoL items as well. And I bought the game plus expansions/DLCs. The original game is now F2P. There is no subscription. Me basically not having played the game since october cost me nothing. If I were playing WoW still, I'd have paid 13 EUR a month for essentially nothing. WoW's main gameplay is raiding. Raiding requires M+ dungeons and grinding. WoW's subscription model means that if you stop playing, you fall behind. The entire game is made to keep you subbed (I call it "forced errands"). It made me feel bad when I didn't play the game ("FOMO"). Contrast that to GW2: I can take a break whenever I feel like. A subscription model does not cater well to casuals. And the casuals are the masses. You don't see new MMOs follow subscription models. Some tried to, and they failed, including your SWTOR example.

> Did World of Warcraft change gaming? The answer is "yes", which invalidates your whole argument. You should have picked a better example.

by Kiro 9y ago

> Did World of Warcraft change gaming? The answer is "yes", which invalidates your whole argument. You should have picked a better example.

wink 9y ago

Please elaborate how you think it changed gaming as a whole? If you think it shaped the whole landscape in general, as in.. transformed one niche genre to a mainstream genre - then yes. Maybe we're just talking different viewpoints. When did "online gaming" change gaming? (If we can agree that it did?) There were online MUDs in the 80s, but hardly anyone knew of them. I'd say the break through in online games were the mid- to end 90s in the upcoming web. (Quake et.al, I wouldn't say Doom already counts, but maybe my own experience is too prominent here) - and then again the MMO years - nothing of that changed the whole spectrum of gaming. On the other hand, maybe ever shift from 8bit to 16bit to 32bit changed gaming. Did the release of every breakthrough console change gaming? Maybe I just fail to see the revolutionary steps :)

jamesrcole 9y ago
> Please elaborate how you think it changed gaming as a whole? (not the person you're replying to) I've heard it said that it's because there's a strong MMO influence on many console games (which aren't MMOs) these days. (This isn't something I can personally comment on, as I haven't played that many modern console games, it's just what I've heard others say).

Shivetya 9y ago

If anything WOW has resisted the trend in MMOs where many have a well developed free to play mechanic backed up by unlocking individual features and content. Bioware's SWTOR does very well money wise with a much smaller player base. The cartel shop is which is nearly all cosmetic is a huge source of revenue. WOW is a relic from a previous generation of subscription only games which started in the 90s and faded out by 2010 with very few relying solely on subscriptions. The future is subscriptions for steady defined bonuses backed up with digital content which can be merely cosmetic or bonuses that don't exceed what a subscription grants and can even enhance that. See Wargaming, which produces games like World of Tanks, World of Warships, and more. You can be wholly free to play or you pay to ease the grind. Working this way you let players get midway into the game before the grind starts to be noticeable then sell them a means to ease it The pay to win loot box crowd may have finally killed their golden goose with relentless greed brought to the forefront by some very large titles by well known companies generating a lot of bad press. There are countless small games on tablets and phones which pull in large revenue for boosts and cosmetics.

skate22 9y ago
Wow is free to play untill level 20. You can play at level 20 for as long as you like, and upgrade / sub to unlock new content.
- wink 9y ago
  I wouldn't call this free to play though. It's a free trial, so to speak. Even the most decidedly non-hardcore "regular" WoW players would reach Level 20 in a month easily, whereas there's enough content to keep you occupied for years even if you started just now.
wink 9y ago
There's been some rumours that SWTOR might be axed soonish, although I hope it's not true. You're also kind of glossing over the fact that SWTOR is still (rightfully) ridiculed in MMO circles for its initial F2P offering (click here to buy this additional hotbar!). IMHO the most healthy MMOs are still subscription-driven: WoW, EVE, and FFXIV.
Fnoord 9y ago
> The future is subscriptions for steady defined bonuses backed up with digital content which can be merely cosmetic or bonuses that don't exceed what a subscription grants and can even enhance that. Why? Subscriptions are not casual-friendly at all. Take GW2, for example. I bought the expansion in august, and had to stop playing in october. I might've logged in for the daily chest, but otherwise I haven't played. When I played, I bought some gold and cosmetic items. A few QoL items as well. And I bought the game plus expansions/DLCs. The original game is now F2P. There is no subscription. Me basically not having played the game since october cost me nothing. If I were playing WoW still, I'd have paid 13 EUR a month for essentially nothing. WoW's main gameplay is raiding. Raiding requires M+ dungeons and grinding. WoW's subscription model means that if you stop playing, you fall behind. The entire game is made to keep you subbed (I call it "forced errands"). It made me feel bad when I didn't play the game ("FOMO"). Contrast that to GW2: I can take a break whenever I feel like. A subscription model does not cater well to casuals. And the casuals are the masses. You don't see new MMOs follow subscription models. Some tried to, and they failed, including your SWTOR example.