4 ms·

So it "changed gaming" because it's one of the current top games with record-breaking user numbers? (The other one being PUBG) I'm not so sure. Did World of Wa

by wink 9y ago

So it "changed gaming" because it's one of the current top games with record-breaking user numbers? (The other one being PUBG) I'm not so sure. Did World of Warcraft change gaming? It surely changed the MMO scene, and they went from total niche market to being very openly discussed and for a while (ca 2008 to 2014?) you found people everywhere that didn't identify as gamers before, but got hooked on WoW. But did it change "gaming"? I don't know, console gamers still play their console games, there are some MMOs, but the majority is still single player/coop/small team and I don't see the PC (non-RPG) gaming market being totally different since WoW was released in 2004. TLDR: Huge hit: yes. Changed a certain genre of games: probably. Changed gaming: nope.

Kiro 9y ago
> Did World of Warcraft change gaming? The answer is "yes", which invalidates your whole argument. You should have picked a better example.
- wink 9y ago
  Please elaborate how you think it changed gaming as a whole? If you think it shaped the whole landscape in general, as in.. transformed one niche genre to a mainstream genre - then yes. Maybe we're just talking different viewpoints. When did "online gaming" change gaming? (If we can agree that it did?) There were online MUDs in the 80s, but hardly anyone knew of them. I'd say the break through in online games were the mid- to end 90s in the upcoming web. (Quake et.al, I wouldn't say Doom already counts, but maybe my own experience is too prominent here) - and then again the MMO years - nothing of that changed the whole spectrum of gaming. On the other hand, maybe ever shift from 8bit to 16bit to 32bit changed gaming. Did the release of every breakthrough console change gaming? Maybe I just fail to see the revolutionary steps :)
  - jamesrcole 9y ago
    > Please elaborate how you think it changed gaming as a whole? (not the person you're replying to) I've heard it said that it's because there's a strong MMO influence on many console games (which aren't MMOs) these days. (This isn't something I can personally comment on, as I haven't played that many modern console games, it's just what I've heard others say).
- Shivetya 9y ago
  If anything WOW has resisted the trend in MMOs where many have a well developed free to play mechanic backed up by unlocking individual features and content. Bioware's SWTOR does very well money wise with a much smaller player base. The cartel shop is which is nearly all cosmetic is a huge source of revenue. WOW is a relic from a previous generation of subscription only games which started in the 90s and faded out by 2010 with very few relying solely on subscriptions. The future is subscriptions for steady defined bonuses backed up with digital content which can be merely cosmetic or bonuses that don't exceed what a subscription grants and can even enhance that. See Wargaming, which produces games like World of Tanks, World of Warships, and more. You can be wholly free to play or you pay to ease the grind. Working this way you let players get midway into the game before the grind starts to be noticeable then sell them a means to ease it The pay to win loot box crowd may have finally killed their golden goose with relentless greed brought to the forefront by some very large titles by well known companies generating a lot of bad press. There are countless small games on tablets and phones which pull in large revenue for boosts and cosmetics.
  - skate22 9y ago
    Wow is free to play untill level 20. You can play at level 20 for as long as you like, and upgrade / sub to unlock new content.
    - wink 9y ago
      I wouldn't call this free to play though. It's a free trial, so to speak. Even the most decidedly non-hardcore "regular" WoW players would reach Level 20 in a month easily, whereas there's enough content to keep you occupied for years even if you started just now.
  - wink 9y ago
    There's been some rumours that SWTOR might be axed soonish, although I hope it's not true. You're also kind of glossing over the fact that SWTOR is still (rightfully) ridiculed in MMO circles for its initial F2P offering (click here to buy this additional hotbar!). IMHO the most healthy MMOs are still subscription-driven: WoW, EVE, and FFXIV.
matt_s 9y ago
Games that take an existing model (100 player PvP) and add a twist can be called game changing. The twist with Fortnite is building (ala Minecraft in a way) which is game changing as far as how you play. The other element is Epic Games pushing Sony, Microsoft towards cross-play. That would change gaming if they can get them to agree to it. They are inching towards it with consoles, mobile and PC playing together - PS4 to Xbox1 hasn't happened but would change gaming. Social circles with kids are around what gaming platform they are on. Mine mostly play with friends to goof around and chat with each other (live talking, not instant message kind of chat). Cross play across consoles would change gaming - they would not be confined to a certain console dictating who they play with. Their backend systems are doing the cross play, can you imagine if they stand up their backend platform to allow other developers on Unreal Engine to use that for cross play in their games?
- wink 9y ago
  Good points! I don't buy the crossplay argument though, it's just a given that you usually don't crossplay, but I simply cannot imagine the studios are internally using different protocols or even different servers. Sure, you need to port the "client" game on different platforms and sometimes make some adjustments (twinstick shooter vs keyboard mouse, etc) - but there's no inherent reason (at least to me) that crossplay can work. So is this accidentally game changing then when someone finally decides to tear down the barriers? :)
  - matt_s 9y ago
    The difficult part of cross-play is probably in the matchmaking and friend lists. My guess is Sony and Microsoft have different methods for implementing those. I think it would be game changing if it pushed the industry to not have platform exclusives and to just allow a player on any platform to play against a player from any other platform. Game changing doesn't have to be something highly technical or in a 3D engine, etc.

by wink 9y ago

Kiro 9y ago

> Did World of Warcraft change gaming? The answer is "yes", which invalidates your whole argument. You should have picked a better example.

wink 9y ago
Please elaborate how you think it changed gaming as a whole? If you think it shaped the whole landscape in general, as in.. transformed one niche genre to a mainstream genre - then yes. Maybe we're just talking different viewpoints. When did "online gaming" change gaming? (If we can agree that it did?) There were online MUDs in the 80s, but hardly anyone knew of them. I'd say the break through in online games were the mid- to end 90s in the upcoming web. (Quake et.al, I wouldn't say Doom already counts, but maybe my own experience is too prominent here) - and then again the MMO years - nothing of that changed the whole spectrum of gaming. On the other hand, maybe ever shift from 8bit to 16bit to 32bit changed gaming. Did the release of every breakthrough console change gaming? Maybe I just fail to see the revolutionary steps :)
- jamesrcole 9y ago
  > Please elaborate how you think it changed gaming as a whole? (not the person you're replying to) I've heard it said that it's because there's a strong MMO influence on many console games (which aren't MMOs) these days. (This isn't something I can personally comment on, as I haven't played that many modern console games, it's just what I've heard others say).
Shivetya 9y ago
If anything WOW has resisted the trend in MMOs where many have a well developed free to play mechanic backed up by unlocking individual features and content. Bioware's SWTOR does very well money wise with a much smaller player base. The cartel shop is which is nearly all cosmetic is a huge source of revenue. WOW is a relic from a previous generation of subscription only games which started in the 90s and faded out by 2010 with very few relying solely on subscriptions. The future is subscriptions for steady defined bonuses backed up with digital content which can be merely cosmetic or bonuses that don't exceed what a subscription grants and can even enhance that. See Wargaming, which produces games like World of Tanks, World of Warships, and more. You can be wholly free to play or you pay to ease the grind. Working this way you let players get midway into the game before the grind starts to be noticeable then sell them a means to ease it The pay to win loot box crowd may have finally killed their golden goose with relentless greed brought to the forefront by some very large titles by well known companies generating a lot of bad press. There are countless small games on tablets and phones which pull in large revenue for boosts and cosmetics.
- skate22 9y ago
  Wow is free to play untill level 20. You can play at level 20 for as long as you like, and upgrade / sub to unlock new content.
  - wink 9y ago
    I wouldn't call this free to play though. It's a free trial, so to speak. Even the most decidedly non-hardcore "regular" WoW players would reach Level 20 in a month easily, whereas there's enough content to keep you occupied for years even if you started just now.
- wink 9y ago
  There's been some rumours that SWTOR might be axed soonish, although I hope it's not true. You're also kind of glossing over the fact that SWTOR is still (rightfully) ridiculed in MMO circles for its initial F2P offering (click here to buy this additional hotbar!). IMHO the most healthy MMOs are still subscription-driven: WoW, EVE, and FFXIV.

matt_s 9y ago

Games that take an existing model (100 player PvP) and add a twist can be called game changing. The twist with Fortnite is building (ala Minecraft in a way) which is game changing as far as how you play. The other element is Epic Games pushing Sony, Microsoft towards cross-play. That would change gaming if they can get them to agree to it. They are inching towards it with consoles, mobile and PC playing together - PS4 to Xbox1 hasn't happened but would change gaming. Social circles with kids are around what gaming platform they are on. Mine mostly play with friends to goof around and chat with each other (live talking, not instant message kind of chat). Cross play across consoles would change gaming - they would not be confined to a certain console dictating who they play with. Their backend systems are doing the cross play, can you imagine if they stand up their backend platform to allow other developers on Unreal Engine to use that for cross play in their games?

wink 9y ago
Good points! I don't buy the crossplay argument though, it's just a given that you usually don't crossplay, but I simply cannot imagine the studios are internally using different protocols or even different servers. Sure, you need to port the "client" game on different platforms and sometimes make some adjustments (twinstick shooter vs keyboard mouse, etc) - but there's no inherent reason (at least to me) that crossplay can work. So is this accidentally game changing then when someone finally decides to tear down the barriers? :)
- matt_s 9y ago
  The difficult part of cross-play is probably in the matchmaking and friend lists. My guess is Sony and Microsoft have different methods for implementing those. I think it would be game changing if it pushed the industry to not have platform exclusives and to just allow a player on any platform to play against a player from any other platform. Game changing doesn't have to be something highly technical or in a 3D engine, etc.