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It's always amusing to me how people in tech want to have very private lives where they control their public image very carefully while building tools and netwo

It's always amusing to me how people in tech want to have very private lives where they control their public image very carefully while building tools and networks which take away that ability from others. From the Facebook engineers doing this while working on facial recognition to Peter Thiel going after Gawker while funding Palantir, this seems like a near universal double standard in tech today.

ams6110 9y ago
Yes it would be delicious irony if the downfall of Facebook happened because of the very technology and data collection that they created.
- sjg007 9y ago
  The only threats are advertisers pulling out or users leaving. Most people like Facebook for staying in touch.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
austincheney 9y ago
I really wish the media would distinctly separate media companies from technology companies. Facebook is not a technology company. They are a media company. They make money from eyeballs on advertising no differently than CNN or FoxNews. Google claims to be a diverse technology company but they make almost all their money, despite their various products and investments, from data micro auctions that populate paid listings and advertising on their search engine. Amazon is a general retail company. In this vain almost every company in business is a technology company. Almost every company has software developers and writes software products. I work at a bank as a software developer to further the business of the bank. Wisely, my employer clearly claims to be a bank and not a technology company. Examples of technology companies are companies that sell technology as their end product like NVIDIA, Intel, AMD, Apple, Micron, and so forth.
- origami777 9y ago
  Why do you think they should be classified as a media company? Is it to apply the relevant regulations? In my eyes, Facebook is a company of software and hardware engineers. They produce software as a service. That sure sounds like a tech company. If regulations are what you're after, new ones should be created for their specific business.
  - mhluongo 9y ago
    What makes you think they produce software as a service? Their users aren't their customers, advertisers are.
    - origami777 9y ago
      That term refers to software applications made available in a browser. That's how I view Facebook.
      - bogomipz 9y ago
        No "software applications made available in a browser" is not the single defining characteristic of SaaS. SaaS is foremost a licensing and delivery model although it is often accessed via a browser it is not a prerequisite. There are SasS offerings with desktop integration points, sync clients, native iOS apps etc.
        mcny 9y ago
        Sorry if this is an obvious question: would you call Microsoft Office 365 a software as a service? They charge per user per month I think.
        bogomipz 9y ago
        Yes I would consider Microsoft Office 365 a SaaS offering. It's licensing is done via a subscription and delivery is via infrastructure managed by MS.
ExcelSaga 9y ago
I’d be more surprised if people working for a company like Facebook weren’t raging hypocrites. Other than stratospheric levels of cognitive dissonance, hypocrisy or just not giving a shit is the only way someone could work for them. In my experience far more people are hypocrites than truly callous and uncaring. Peter Thiel though, seems like less of a hypocrite and more like someone who just says and does whatever he thinks is personally advantageous, and screw everyone who isn’t Peter a Thiel.
- dleslie 9y ago
  There is the possibility that they well and truly believe that living inside a panoptikon that also manipulates us to manufacture desire for products and consent for political goals is the best of all possible worlds. Or they are in it for the money and are lacking in ethical integrity.
prepend 9y ago
How is Thiel’s Gawker funding in conflict with Palantir. These seem like very different things. Palantir is a massive investigation software tool like many other BI/Analytics tools. Palantir doesn’t collect data, but use data others collect. It’s like complaining because Excel is used to analyze the Facebook data.
- Fnoord 9y ago
  Palantir won't work w/o any of the data. Facebook would work w/o the invention of a spreadsheet. I mean, they could just program their own.
- dahdum 9y ago
  Gawker encroached his privacy, but Palantir was built to do exactly that to the public, at scale.
  - prepend 9y ago
    Are you sure? Palantir doesn’t encroach privacy more than R or SAS or any of the other myriad analytics software. Are there examples of Palantir collecting data? Or violating user privacy?
    - dahdum 9y ago
      They work directly with the government to enable them to do so. I’m not faulting them directly, just pointing out why the link can be made. I think Palantir is mostly a joke, overpaid consultants selling subpar technology backed by slick salespeople and PowerPoints. Like IBM.
RpFLCL 9y ago
I've begun to wonder if the double standards and hypocrisy are a symptom of our industry where a college education isn't required and maintaining ethics isn't really encouraged. Sure you might spell out what you're doing in your TOS, but if your advertising sells a different story and you let people believe that instead, is that behavior ethical? I don't think so. For some people, however, this might feel acceptable. It is a bit of a shame because of we can't act ethically ourselves, I fear clumsy regulations will be created to correct us. We should have done better with the power we had.
- EVdotIO 9y ago
  How does college education have anything to do with living ethically?
  - RpFLCL 9y ago
    College provides (and usually requires) courses specifically focused on topics like business ethics, philosophy of law, environmental philosophy, environmental ethics... How much any one person takes these courses to heart is up to them, but college provides an exposure that wouldn't otherwise be required. I'm not trying to say that everyone needs college, especially not with the costs it takes. I'm only trying to question what it is about our industry that seems to make unethical behavior so acceptable. I believe that almost anyone can learn to code if they're interested, but self-teaching doesn't necessarily show you why you shouldn't use that to overpowered others.
    - EVdotIO 9y ago
      I know of ethics courses. Obviously there are moral implications for actions in many professions which aren't readily apparent. A few courses are not going to fix these problems by a long shot. Peter Thiel, went to Stanford and got not only his BA there, but also a JD. Alex Karp has a JD from Stanford. Harvard MBAs care about one thing (hint: it isn't you). Construction and large infrastructure projects are rife with corruption. Our political system is corrupt. Barack Obama didn't stand up to the status quo of institutional behavior. Doctors prescribe opioids to white trash and speed to kids. Prosecutors are "tough on crime" solely for their own career advancement. The Milgram and Stanford prison experiments... This isn't confined to tech, or people without higher education.
mesozoic 9y ago
Sad but true. Most wouldn't choose to work on this sort of garbage but it is what seems to make money.

ams6110 9y ago

Yes it would be delicious irony if the downfall of Facebook happened because of the very technology and data collection that they created.

sjg007 9y ago
The only threats are advertisers pulling out or users leaving. Most people like Facebook for staying in touch.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

austincheney 9y ago

I really wish the media would distinctly separate media companies from technology companies. Facebook is not a technology company. They are a media company. They make money from eyeballs on advertising no differently than CNN or FoxNews. Google claims to be a diverse technology company but they make almost all their money, despite their various products and investments, from data micro auctions that populate paid listings and advertising on their search engine. Amazon is a general retail company. In this vain almost every company in business is a technology company. Almost every company has software developers and writes software products. I work at a bank as a software developer to further the business of the bank. Wisely, my employer clearly claims to be a bank and not a technology company. Examples of technology companies are companies that sell technology as their end product like NVIDIA, Intel, AMD, Apple, Micron, and so forth.

origami777 9y ago
Why do you think they should be classified as a media company? Is it to apply the relevant regulations? In my eyes, Facebook is a company of software and hardware engineers. They produce software as a service. That sure sounds like a tech company. If regulations are what you're after, new ones should be created for their specific business.
- mhluongo 9y ago
  What makes you think they produce software as a service? Their users aren't their customers, advertisers are.
  - origami777 9y ago
    That term refers to software applications made available in a browser. That's how I view Facebook.
    - bogomipz 9y ago
      No "software applications made available in a browser" is not the single defining characteristic of SaaS. SaaS is foremost a licensing and delivery model although it is often accessed via a browser it is not a prerequisite. There are SasS offerings with desktop integration points, sync clients, native iOS apps etc.
      - mcny 9y ago
        Sorry if this is an obvious question: would you call Microsoft Office 365 a software as a service? They charge per user per month I think.
        bogomipz 9y ago
        Yes I would consider Microsoft Office 365 a SaaS offering. It's licensing is done via a subscription and delivery is via infrastructure managed by MS.

ExcelSaga 9y ago

I’d be more surprised if people working for a company like Facebook weren’t raging hypocrites. Other than stratospheric levels of cognitive dissonance, hypocrisy or just not giving a shit is the only way someone could work for them. In my experience far more people are hypocrites than truly callous and uncaring. Peter Thiel though, seems like less of a hypocrite and more like someone who just says and does whatever he thinks is personally advantageous, and screw everyone who isn’t Peter a Thiel.

dleslie 9y ago
There is the possibility that they well and truly believe that living inside a panoptikon that also manipulates us to manufacture desire for products and consent for political goals is the best of all possible worlds. Or they are in it for the money and are lacking in ethical integrity.

prepend 9y ago

How is Thiel’s Gawker funding in conflict with Palantir. These seem like very different things. Palantir is a massive investigation software tool like many other BI/Analytics tools. Palantir doesn’t collect data, but use data others collect. It’s like complaining because Excel is used to analyze the Facebook data.

Fnoord 9y ago
Palantir won't work w/o any of the data. Facebook would work w/o the invention of a spreadsheet. I mean, they could just program their own.
dahdum 9y ago
Gawker encroached his privacy, but Palantir was built to do exactly that to the public, at scale.
- prepend 9y ago
  Are you sure? Palantir doesn’t encroach privacy more than R or SAS or any of the other myriad analytics software. Are there examples of Palantir collecting data? Or violating user privacy?
  - dahdum 9y ago
    They work directly with the government to enable them to do so. I’m not faulting them directly, just pointing out why the link can be made. I think Palantir is mostly a joke, overpaid consultants selling subpar technology backed by slick salespeople and PowerPoints. Like IBM.

RpFLCL 9y ago

I've begun to wonder if the double standards and hypocrisy are a symptom of our industry where a college education isn't required and maintaining ethics isn't really encouraged. Sure you might spell out what you're doing in your TOS, but if your advertising sells a different story and you let people believe that instead, is that behavior ethical? I don't think so. For some people, however, this might feel acceptable. It is a bit of a shame because of we can't act ethically ourselves, I fear clumsy regulations will be created to correct us. We should have done better with the power we had.

EVdotIO 9y ago
How does college education have anything to do with living ethically?
- RpFLCL 9y ago
  College provides (and usually requires) courses specifically focused on topics like business ethics, philosophy of law, environmental philosophy, environmental ethics... How much any one person takes these courses to heart is up to them, but college provides an exposure that wouldn't otherwise be required. I'm not trying to say that everyone needs college, especially not with the costs it takes. I'm only trying to question what it is about our industry that seems to make unethical behavior so acceptable. I believe that almost anyone can learn to code if they're interested, but self-teaching doesn't necessarily show you why you shouldn't use that to overpowered others.
  - EVdotIO 9y ago
    I know of ethics courses. Obviously there are moral implications for actions in many professions which aren't readily apparent. A few courses are not going to fix these problems by a long shot. Peter Thiel, went to Stanford and got not only his BA there, but also a JD. Alex Karp has a JD from Stanford. Harvard MBAs care about one thing (hint: it isn't you). Construction and large infrastructure projects are rife with corruption. Our political system is corrupt. Barack Obama didn't stand up to the status quo of institutional behavior. Doctors prescribe opioids to white trash and speed to kids. Prosecutors are "tough on crime" solely for their own career advancement. The Milgram and Stanford prison experiments... This isn't confined to tech, or people without higher education.

mesozoic 9y ago

Sad but true. Most wouldn't choose to work on this sort of garbage but it is what seems to make money.