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I think calorie restriction is a more interesting idea, because it forces you to think about eating high-nutrient foods. The first things I did were to eliminat

I think calorie restriction is a more interesting idea, because it forces you to think about eating high-nutrient foods. The first things I did were to eliminate sugars and other processed ingredients, including all flours. Continuing to eat junk and assuming that pills and supplements will compensate for that is probably not a good idea.

dmix 9y ago
From the article: > From a public health perspective [restricting calories] would be impractical for many and dangerous for some. Regardless of what's the most optimal solution it's very helpful to have the option when this isn't an easy/practical option. And having tried to cut out sugars and processed foods in my own life, it was certainly not easy and required a significant monetary and time investment to cook my own meals, and buy fast-expiring produce. It doesn't have to be either/or to reach health goals, as you can mix the two depending on your particular resources.
- naasking 9y ago
  For whom would calorie restriction be dangerous? I don't get the time and monetary cost either. You can precook your meals for a whole week on Sunday night, as long as you don't mind a little repetition.
  - nopinsight 9y ago
    For the elderly and perhaps others also, too little insulation means a higher chance of accidents (falls etc.) turning fatal. It might be quite hard to consume a sufficient amount of certain nutrients like Calcium on caloric restricted diet as well.
- JoshMnem 9y ago
  > And having tried to cut out sugars and processed foods in my own life, it was certainly not easy and required a significant monetary and time investment to cook my own meals, and buy fast-expiring produce. I've been doing it for two years, and there are solutions to those problems. It's cheaper and faster to eat healthily and restrict calories than to cook a typical US diet -- it just requires a different perspective. I wish I weren't busy at the moment, so I could build a website about how to manage it.
  - mistermann 9y ago
    I'd love to read even some high level bullet points of avenues to investigate, if that form is possible.
    - JoshMnem 9y ago
      A few quick ideas from my experiments are below. I'm not a doctor so these aren't recommendations -- just things that I've experimented with. It requires a change in perspective. A quote I like is, "food is not a recreational drug." Food is fuel for a fermentation tank (digestive system). If you want the machine to run well, figure out what creates ideal fermentation environment. (Watch out for things like sugars and flours.) I do meal prep by steaming a lot of vegetables in advance[1] and storing them in containers in the refrigerator. Then I can quickly make a variety of meals by combining the vegetables in various ways. Legume (bean, lentil, split pea) and vegetable soups are also good to have on hand at all times. Tahini is a base for a good sauce. I think 2 tbsp will provide about 10% of daily required calcium for most people. When out of the house, I bring along some chunks of raw red cabbage and raw broccoli.[2] They are cheap, filling, and actually pretty good, especially when you're hungry. I think it's okay to skip meals when healthy food isn't available. Restaurants can also usually provide steamed, plain vegetables on request, if you're eating out with people. Drink a quart of cold water before starting breakfast and sufficient water throughout the day. If you need to reduce calories, you can make a cutoff time for eating -- like 4, 5, or 6 pm. That also provides 14-16+ hours of fasting per day to rest the digestive system. Another way to do it is to have reduced calorie days, like on the 5:2 diet. When reducing calories I focus on high-nutrient foods. My main staple is steamed vegetables. I'd recommend becoming very familiar with different kinds of vegetables and how to cook them (steaming and/or adding to soups). A bookstore would probably have a selection of vegetable encyclopedia-type books. If it seems hard to maintain a healthy diet, it's still easier than being sick. I went from 215 pounds to 145 pounds, hovering around 150. Even if you don't reduce calories significantly, a diet focused on vegetables is probably going to have great long-term benefits, including life extension. If you're in the Bay Area, and want to talk about ideas, you can come to one of our programming meetups.[3] I like to exchange ideas with other people who experiment with food. Or send me an email (josh@codeselfstudy.com), and I'll invite you to a place where I've posted more information about the experiments. [1] https://codeselfstudy.com/files/food.jpg https://codeselfstudy.com/files/food.jpg [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zz4YVJ4aRfg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zz4YVJ4aRfg [3] https://codeselfstudy.com/ https://codeselfstudy.com/
pwnage12 9y ago
Compliance for CR is near impossible though. I'm a believer in it but am still 10 pounds overweight. It won't work for everyone, obviously (because so many of us are overweight).
- gwern 9y ago
  It's not impossible. Look at the CR experiments like CALERIE. Dropout is something like 10-20%, similar to intermittent fasting or other kinds of diets.
  - JamesBarney 9y ago
    I'd heard CALORIE was selective with applicants in order to increase compliance.
    - gwern 9y ago
      Most studies are.
- arnoooooo 9y ago
  Intermittent fasting is not that hard.

dmix 9y ago

From the article: > From a public health perspective [restricting calories] would be impractical for many and dangerous for some. Regardless of what's the most optimal solution it's very helpful to have the option when this isn't an easy/practical option. And having tried to cut out sugars and processed foods in my own life, it was certainly not easy and required a significant monetary and time investment to cook my own meals, and buy fast-expiring produce. It doesn't have to be either/or to reach health goals, as you can mix the two depending on your particular resources.

naasking 9y ago
For whom would calorie restriction be dangerous? I don't get the time and monetary cost either. You can precook your meals for a whole week on Sunday night, as long as you don't mind a little repetition.
- nopinsight 9y ago
  For the elderly and perhaps others also, too little insulation means a higher chance of accidents (falls etc.) turning fatal. It might be quite hard to consume a sufficient amount of certain nutrients like Calcium on caloric restricted diet as well.
JoshMnem 9y ago
> And having tried to cut out sugars and processed foods in my own life, it was certainly not easy and required a significant monetary and time investment to cook my own meals, and buy fast-expiring produce. I've been doing it for two years, and there are solutions to those problems. It's cheaper and faster to eat healthily and restrict calories than to cook a typical US diet -- it just requires a different perspective. I wish I weren't busy at the moment, so I could build a website about how to manage it.
- mistermann 9y ago
  I'd love to read even some high level bullet points of avenues to investigate, if that form is possible.
  - JoshMnem 9y ago
    A few quick ideas from my experiments are below. I'm not a doctor so these aren't recommendations -- just things that I've experimented with. It requires a change in perspective. A quote I like is, "food is not a recreational drug." Food is fuel for a fermentation tank (digestive system). If you want the machine to run well, figure out what creates ideal fermentation environment. (Watch out for things like sugars and flours.) I do meal prep by steaming a lot of vegetables in advance[1] and storing them in containers in the refrigerator. Then I can quickly make a variety of meals by combining the vegetables in various ways. Legume (bean, lentil, split pea) and vegetable soups are also good to have on hand at all times. Tahini is a base for a good sauce. I think 2 tbsp will provide about 10% of daily required calcium for most people. When out of the house, I bring along some chunks of raw red cabbage and raw broccoli.[2] They are cheap, filling, and actually pretty good, especially when you're hungry. I think it's okay to skip meals when healthy food isn't available. Restaurants can also usually provide steamed, plain vegetables on request, if you're eating out with people. Drink a quart of cold water before starting breakfast and sufficient water throughout the day. If you need to reduce calories, you can make a cutoff time for eating -- like 4, 5, or 6 pm. That also provides 14-16+ hours of fasting per day to rest the digestive system. Another way to do it is to have reduced calorie days, like on the 5:2 diet. When reducing calories I focus on high-nutrient foods. My main staple is steamed vegetables. I'd recommend becoming very familiar with different kinds of vegetables and how to cook them (steaming and/or adding to soups). A bookstore would probably have a selection of vegetable encyclopedia-type books. If it seems hard to maintain a healthy diet, it's still easier than being sick. I went from 215 pounds to 145 pounds, hovering around 150. Even if you don't reduce calories significantly, a diet focused on vegetables is probably going to have great long-term benefits, including life extension. If you're in the Bay Area, and want to talk about ideas, you can come to one of our programming meetups.[3] I like to exchange ideas with other people who experiment with food. Or send me an email (josh@codeselfstudy.com), and I'll invite you to a place where I've posted more information about the experiments. [1] https://codeselfstudy.com/files/food.jpg https://codeselfstudy.com/files/food.jpg [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zz4YVJ4aRfg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zz4YVJ4aRfg [3] https://codeselfstudy.com/ https://codeselfstudy.com/

pwnage12 9y ago

Compliance for CR is near impossible though. I'm a believer in it but am still 10 pounds overweight. It won't work for everyone, obviously (because so many of us are overweight).

gwern 9y ago
It's not impossible. Look at the CR experiments like CALERIE. Dropout is something like 10-20%, similar to intermittent fasting or other kinds of diets.
- JamesBarney 9y ago
  I'd heard CALORIE was selective with applicants in order to increase compliance.
  - gwern 9y ago
    Most studies are.
arnoooooo 9y ago
Intermittent fasting is not that hard.