4 ms·

Overpopulation is just the symptom of a problem. It will cease to be an issue if living standards increase around the world.

r00fus 9y ago
I think this is the crux of the issue. Many folks pine for yesterday, but honestly until/unless we all embrace (and stop demonizing) birth control and increase the meaningfulness of lives worldwide, there will continue to be massive ecological damage just from people, leave alone industry.
NiklasMort 9y ago
Which will never happen because that'd go against capitalism. Even in the western world the majority of people lives in bad conditions. You really think you can improve the living standards for 90%+ of the world population?
- rory096 9y ago
  >You really think you can improve the living standards for 90%+ of the world population? Yes? Why would that not be possible?
  - NiklasMort 9y ago
    You're aware of rising poverty levels in the FIRST world? Besides you can't fix distribution caused poverty, there will never be a frikking oasis of societal beauty in the heart of the Sahara.
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
    - rory096 9y ago
      If you're referring to the 2016 ILO report[0][1], that was a short-term trend partially attributable to the refugee influx. Overall, global poverty has been on a steep downward trend for decades. [0] http://www.ilo.org/wcmsp5/groups/public/---dgreports/---dcomm/---publ/documents/publication/wcms_443480.pdf http://www.ilo.org/wcmsp5/groups/public/---dgreports/---dcom... [1] https://www.cnbc.com/2016/05/19/poverty-increasing-in-developed-countries-ilo.html https://www.cnbc.com/2016/05/19/poverty-increasing-in-develo... [2] https://ourworldindata.org/extreme-poverty https://ourworldindata.org/extreme-poverty
- lifeformed 9y ago
  But living conditions have drastically improved over recent decades for 90% of the population. What makes you think things have peaked now? Also, capitalism would greatly benefit from improved economic conditions around the world.
IshKebab 9y ago
You have that backwards. Pretty much everything else is a symptom of overpopulation, which is the root problem. No matter how green and efficient we are, if the population keeps growing it won't really matter.
- lifeformed 9y ago
  But the population doesn't grow much where standards of living are high. People have lots of kids in poor areas because their survival rates are relatively low, and need them for labor. As conditions improve, birth rates lower.
- mathgladiator 9y ago
  The argument is that when people have better living conditions, they have less babies. Namely, babies will survive so two people will only have one child.

r00fus 9y ago

I think this is the crux of the issue. Many folks pine for yesterday, but honestly until/unless we all embrace (and stop demonizing) birth control and increase the meaningfulness of lives worldwide, there will continue to be massive ecological damage just from people, leave alone industry.

NiklasMort 9y ago

Which will never happen because that'd go against capitalism. Even in the western world the majority of people lives in bad conditions. You really think you can improve the living standards for 90%+ of the world population?

rory096 9y ago
>You really think you can improve the living standards for 90%+ of the world population? Yes? Why would that not be possible?
- NiklasMort 9y ago
  You're aware of rising poverty levels in the FIRST world? Besides you can't fix distribution caused poverty, there will never be a frikking oasis of societal beauty in the heart of the Sahara.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - rory096 9y ago
    If you're referring to the 2016 ILO report[0][1], that was a short-term trend partially attributable to the refugee influx. Overall, global poverty has been on a steep downward trend for decades. [0] http://www.ilo.org/wcmsp5/groups/public/---dgreports/---dcomm/---publ/documents/publication/wcms_443480.pdf http://www.ilo.org/wcmsp5/groups/public/---dgreports/---dcom... [1] https://www.cnbc.com/2016/05/19/poverty-increasing-in-developed-countries-ilo.html https://www.cnbc.com/2016/05/19/poverty-increasing-in-develo... [2] https://ourworldindata.org/extreme-poverty https://ourworldindata.org/extreme-poverty
lifeformed 9y ago
But living conditions have drastically improved over recent decades for 90% of the population. What makes you think things have peaked now? Also, capitalism would greatly benefit from improved economic conditions around the world.

IshKebab 9y ago

You have that backwards. Pretty much everything else is a symptom of overpopulation, which is the root problem. No matter how green and efficient we are, if the population keeps growing it won't really matter.

lifeformed 9y ago
But the population doesn't grow much where standards of living are high. People have lots of kids in poor areas because their survival rates are relatively low, and need them for labor. As conditions improve, birth rates lower.
mathgladiator 9y ago
The argument is that when people have better living conditions, they have less babies. Namely, babies will survive so two people will only have one child.