11 ms·

IBM Plex – A new typeface

240 points by uptown 9y ago

baconomatic 9y ago
Anyone else find these sort of sites annoying to navigate? How am I supposed to know how much I need to scroll down? Is the site broken or do I just need to scroll more? Overall, I'm surprised it's taken IBM this long to put out a font.
- zackkitzmiller 9y ago
  Incredibly.
- CabSauce 9y ago
  This might be the worst version of this type of page I've ever seen.
  - deleted 9y ago
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  - deleted 9y ago
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  - ggregoire 9y ago
    I usually think comments on HN about UX are overreacted, but wow, this website is definitely awful.
- justherefortart 9y ago
  Whole reason I came here to comment.
- Mononokay 9y ago
  It's been around for at least a year.
- dharness 9y ago
  Yeah wow what a horrible website...
- csours 9y ago
  It's almost like the UI designer took it as a personal challenge to see how horrible they could make the experience.
  - alonmower 9y ago
    I read this comment thinking it was a "typical HN overreaction" but then looked at the page and oh my god you couldn't be more right
    - csours 9y ago
      I normally don't mind things like the NYT experimental pages, but this one is just egregious. When you get to the big IBM, nothing works but the scroll wheel for me. Things you expect to scroll the page: * Arrow keys * Scroll Bar * Page Up/Down Keys * Hold middle mouse button * Scroll wheel (ONLY THIS WORKS) * Mobile swipe (didn't test)
  - losteric 9y ago
    Or maybe they hired an animator as their UI designer.
- Terribledactyl 9y ago
  It's a natural extension of awful PowerPoints
- ihuman 9y ago
  I can't even use the arrow keys, page up/down, or home/end to navigate with my keyboard. I hate the amount of noise I make scrolling through websites like this.
- weego 9y ago
  I've never experienced a site where you can't scroll back up before. And then the navigation is a tiny strip of colour that's already closed so you have no signposting as to what the hell is going on? Kudos on the most counter intuitive website I have ever seen. distinctly IBM indeed.
- stefan_ 9y ago
  It feels like a debug system - like I'm single-stepping animations for their "pixel perfect" correctness. There is a reason they didn't stop improving on animations after the flip book was invented.
- lobo_tuerto 9y ago
  It's an exercise into negative UX from IBM labs.
warent 9y ago
Am I the only one that finds this page clunky and awkward to navigate?
- draw_down 9y ago
  No, in fact literally the only other top level comment says the same exact thing.
  - warent 9y ago
    Our posts were seconds apart, I didn't even see it until after I made mine
- dexterdog 9y ago
  If you didn't there would be something wrong with you.
deleted 9y ago
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dssu 9y ago
This is a great example of how not to implement a scrolling website
uptown 9y ago
Here's the download page if you want to avoid the horrific-to-navigate site: https://github.com/IBM/plex/releases/tag/v1.0.1 https://github.com/IBM/plex/releases/tag/v1.0.1
- erk__ 9y ago
  Or if you use arch linux you can get it here: https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/ttf-ibm-plex-git/ https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/ttf-ibm-plex-git/ (I have to change as now it downloads the whole repo as it used to be in a giant repo with no release.)
- SloopJon 9y ago
  Any idea why they recommend TrueType over TrueType? Is that a general recommendation, or something specific to this typeface? Edit: From BoldMonday's comment in issue 103: "TrueTypes can be - and in the case of IBM Plex are - specifically hinted for screen. OpenTypes with PostScript outlines are not able to do that."
  - CharlesW 9y ago
    FWIW: "Increasing resolutions and new approaches to screen rendering have reduced the requirement of extensive TrueType hinting. Apple's rendering approach on macOS ignores almost all the hints in a TrueType font, while Microsoft's ClearType ignores many hints, and according to Microsoft, works best with 'lightly hinted' fonts."[1] Also, OTF is required for advanced typography features. Given that TrueType hinting is mostly ignored, OTF is generally a better choice. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TrueType#Macintosh_and_Microsoft_Windows https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TrueType#Macintosh_and_Microso...
boznz 9y ago
Wow, What a shit web site, I'd hate to see what a payroll system looks like :-)
- thrillgore 9y ago
  Or an iOS app to randomly select between two columns...
2fifty3 9y ago
Great looking font, I think my scroll wheel might be exhausted from that webpage though.
seibelj 9y ago
From my experience dealing with IBM, I can only imagine this was the result of 5 different consulting teams, assisted by 3 different outsourced development groups, which was delayed numerous times, then Watson was added, and then a re-org caused by layoffs, which finally resulted in a website that couldn't scroll and caused the CPU of my high-end laptop to scream...
- luma 9y ago
  It feels like there should be a 9-digit contract with a hapless government entity that stands no chance of actually getting the font they thought they were paying for.
  - Spooky23 9y ago
    ...and as a result a $6B payroll project will be cancelled because the integrator was depending on IBM Plex being a drop-in replacement for Comic Sans Bold.
- krona 9y ago
  You missed the most important part; it was initiated by a team of lawyers who were tipped off by another team who noticed the Watson design team were using a typeface on public websites which they didn't have the copyright to, and certainly didn't have the license to redistribute. Almost 2 years later, Plex was born. (This is a true story, by the way.)
  - dawnerd 9y ago
    > Plex was born. And then they get sued by Plex, Inc and starts over.
  - mark-r 9y ago
    Thanks for that, I was wondering why they went to all the trouble of designing a new typeface. The thing I haven't figured out yet is why they made it open source rather than keeping it exclusively for their own use.
  - 9y ago
htor 9y ago
introducing scroll-o-death page
outside2344 9y ago
I'm glad they are wasting their time on this versus being relevant.
- SpikeDad 9y ago
  Netflix just created a custom font for themselves. If it's good enough for Netflix it's good enough for IBM. 8-)
- benbenolson 9y ago
  Being relevant? Their architectures and systems are quickly rising in popularity, their compiler is making great strides, and overall they're actively breaking into the HPC market, which they haven't been dominating in a very long time. I'd say they're extremely relevant, just perhaps not to your specific skillset.
  - TheOtherHobbes 9y ago
    Based on this site, they're actively breaking out of the web design market. As for the rest: https://www.statista.com/statistics/269396/global-market-share-held-by-server-system-vendors-since-1st-quarter-2009/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/269396/global-market-sha... It's too early to tell if that last quarter is an amazing turn-around trend, or an anomaly.
jefe_ 9y ago
User Experience Goal: Amphetamine-Fueled Delusions of Grandeur
nsxwolf 9y ago
Apple, Samsung, Netflix, now IBM... why does everyone need their own typeface? Is it to save on licensing fees? As a user, I don't really find these fonts very distinctive, so I don't associate them with their brands.
- kashprime 9y ago
  I guess they don't want to get the Papyrus treatment by Ryan Gosling: https://www.theverge.com/2017/10/1/16392890/avatar-papyrus-font-ryan-gosling-saturday-night-live-tv https://www.theverge.com/2017/10/1/16392890/avatar-papyrus-f...
- robotsquidward 9y ago
  I think San Francisco and Roboto are distinctively Apple and Google respectively. I also think they matter more because they're system fonts on some of the biggest platforms (and maybe just because I happen to like them). If I ever see this font again, I probably won't even know I'm looking at it.
- oddevan 9y ago
  In the case of Netflix, it is specifically to save on licensing fees. Gotham is expensive, yo. Apple's always had their own typeface, though I don't remember them using one as heavily as San Francisco. But it feels very in-character for them. Samsung did it, I suspect, because Apple did.
  - erikig 9y ago
    Damn you Tobias Frere-Jones, rolling around in your font wealth!
  - grzm 9y ago
    Apple's always been focussed on design, in both marketing and UI. In marketing, for a long time everything was Apple Garamond, then Myriad. In the UI, Chicago and Geneva were heavy hitters. Now we have San Francisco. A key difference with this last one is that it's used in both the UI and in marketing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Typography_of_Apple_Inc https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Typography_of_Apple_Inc.
rado 9y ago
Love the font.
Numberwang 9y ago
Hmm, this is old right? I remember seeing this months ago.
- deleted 9y ago
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- zokier 9y ago
  The news of Plex started coming out late last year, but I think it started appearing on e.g. IBM documentation even earlier than that.
JustSomeNobody 9y ago
I really thought this was going to be video streaming related. Then I opened the site and thought, "Ok, that makes much more sense."
dexterdog 9y ago
I switched my editor default from Liberation Mono to this and it is almost the identical font. The only thing I don't like is the mono is not sans-serif so I'll stick with Liberation.
NegativeLatency 9y ago
Looks a lot like DejaVu Sans Mono to me. Also it is not easy to tell l (lowercase L) and 1 (the number 1) apart in their monospaced font.
brailsafe 9y ago
That IBM System/360 is beautiful. I never thought I'd say that about anything IBM.
fareesh 9y ago
Lots of jank on an old Nexus 6P. Granted it's not buttery smooth anymore, but that was pretty crazy. Does it load jank free on anyone's mobile device? Curious to know if there are devices out there with no jank on this site.
- Karunamon 9y ago
  My 6S was having a really hard time here, and this phone isn’t exactly a slouch!
mey 9y ago
They have a type tester on the page. May I suggest plugging in the following characters. Wasn't a fan of how they are represented. lwQ{}vxz Edit: Correction, it's just Mono Italic Bold. Looks better in other formats.
parliament32 9y ago
Those 5s make me uncomfortable.
subbz 9y ago
Very IBMish. Brutalist designers will love it. I kinda like it.
tzakrajs 9y ago
Stop using the word Plex. Stop.
jf 9y ago
It is a very "IBM" typeface indeed. It reminds me of the typeface that is inspired by the IBM 1403 printer: https://1403.slantedhall.com/ https://1403.slantedhall.com/
TrisMcC 9y ago
I've been using Plex Mono for my Emacs font on MacOS for about a week and it's very nice. It has replaced Hack for the time being. The font has just the right amount of whimsy/flair for me, and the style of the italics is pretty neat.
- MartinCron 9y ago
  Something I never thought I would write, but here it is: "Those curly braces are gorgeous"
deleted 9y ago
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tzahola 9y ago
Their website works horribly in Safari.
marcelluspye 9y ago
This website is so ugly and hard-to-use I honestly thought it was a parody (I still kind of do). Font looks okay, though.
- deleted 9y ago
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CNJ7654 9y ago
Turn on NoScript, makes the site much better :)
sunseb 9y ago
The website is a pain, the font is very nice though.
nik736 9y ago
On my 4k screen this landing page is a complete disaster.
- broodbucket 9y ago
  It's a disaster on everyone's screen.
bitwize 9y ago
Nice. Is it available as a Selectric typeball?
- throwaway4719 9y ago
  Is the website available on any known platform, including any selectric-based platforms?
  - kps 9y ago
    The Selectric has nice scroll wheels.
- chaoticmass 9y ago
  They should make them as a promotional item.
xab9 9y ago
In 2018 frontend development reached the point where multiple pages with a working scrollbar seems to be beyond our reach. In the meantime the "glorious" IBM releases a free font, and this is newsworthy. I think the Internet, while started out as something really promising, it's done for. Let it die, before it's too late, please. Someone, pull the plug, let's start over. Maybe the next one will be better, who knows.
zachrose 9y ago
This is excellent work, and all of the source files and fonts permissively licensed and available on GitHub. https://github.com/IBM/plex https://github.com/IBM/plex
- dgreensp 9y ago
  Oh wow, I was not expecting that!
misterbowfinger 9y ago
I love the general design. But as others noted, the scrolling behavior is WAY terrible. Do "normal people" enjoy this type of scrolling behavior?
ghaff 9y ago
Too bad the website is so poorly designed. It's actually a nice read through the design decisions. My first glance at the IBM serif made me think it was more of a slab serif like Stymie Bold but the discussion of its use in smaller sizes foes a nice job of explaining the differences.
- throwaway4719 9y ago
  How were you able to read anything?
  - ghaff 9y ago
    There's a menu that you can click on at the top if you move your mouse/trackpad in the right way and that brings up additional pages. Whoever designed--and I use that word in the loosest possible sense--the pages needs some remedial web design school, as does anyone who approved it.
  - musage 9y ago
    IBM has always served as a medium between mankind and machine. Between the natural and the engineered. The emotional and rational. The classic and the cutting-edge. Our most important job is to help humanity and technology move forward together. IBM Plex™ brings these relationships to life through letterforms. I was able to read this stuff by first pounding my knee with my fist, then biting so hard on my left hand I nearly lost some fingertips. But I made it through it. The challenging scrolling actually provided some additional and welcome distraction from the sheer horror of the words.
    - fao_ 9y ago
      I vouched for this because it's a worthwhile criticism of a post. For the record, you're shadowbanned, by the way.
benbenolson 9y ago
I'm actually using this font globally on my system (the sans-serif, monospace, and serif version), in Firefox, i3, terminal emulator, etc. They're great fonts, my favorite my far. They're just interesting enough to be a cool font, but not so interesting that things are difficult to read or look odd.
throwaway4719 9y ago
This is comically bad.
wnevets 9y ago
I hate to be that guy but that fucking site is a pain
exabrial 9y ago
Were the overseas IBM contractors paid in units of "full page scrolls"?
chao- 9y ago
This is one of the most frustrating page navigation experiences I have had in long a while. I tend to scroll with pgup/pgdn or arrow keys (or more occasionally, space/shift+space) and when I got to the big "IBM" logo the page just kind of stopped. I thought that was all. It wasn't until I came to this thread I realized there was more, and I should look again, but even then it took me forever to: 1. Realize I needed to put my hand on my mouse, hover the tiny, thin red line to get it to expand, and then use that to navigate. 2. Flip between pgup/pgdn and arrow keys. Sometimes one set worked, sometimes another did, and it would flip at random points in the experience. Why on earth would you selectively enable and disable the browser's interaction with common navigation keys repeatedly in the span of a single page? I can understand blocking/swallowing one set if you intend to use it somewhere for something else (i.e. the text input sections), but flipping them on and off with no other use for those keys while they are blocked? It boggles the mind.
- minieggs 9y ago
  Wow, shift+space is great. I wish I knew about this years ago.
- hammerbrostime 9y ago
  Very funny, I viewed the page on my iPhone and the experience was a joy. Perhaps they overfit the experience for mobile?
- munk-a 9y ago
  I think you just need to get hip to the Web6.0 design patterns. This site is just the beginning of the next style revolution... that we really need to get in front of and stop quickly.
- BoorishBears 9y ago
  Before clicking the link: grumble grumble typical HN, top comment is whining about the webpage instead of focusing on the content. sigh After clicking the link on my smartphone: Sweet mother of Jesus, what have they done.
  - 9y ago
amelius 9y ago
If it's "distinctly IBM" then why is it interesting for the rest of us? It also makes me wonder: is IBM trying to push subliminal advertisements for its brand through this typeface?
paulie_a 9y ago
Project manager for that site: "Hey need the most unusable website ever created, but with a modern feel. Bonuses of $1K for every anti pattern you can manage to incorporate"
- delecti 9y ago
  Even the term "anti-pattern" too graciously implies there's some sort of rhyme or reason (some "pattern") to the madness.
mhd 9y ago
I first heard about this from the iA Writer blog[1], where they used Plex Mono for their own Duospace font. I've been using the font intermittently since then (I'm still somewhat of a Monaco fanboy on OS X), and I like it quite a lot. [1]: https://ia.net/topics/in-search-of-the-perfect-writing-font/ https://ia.net/topics/in-search-of-the-perfect-writing-font/
ivan_ah 9y ago
Looks pretty nice overall, but the glyph for the digit 5 is weird, especially in bold. The notch on the left goes really deep...
goofballlogic 9y ago
What the hell were they thinking?
antoineMoPa 9y ago
I love the font and the site, it worked well in chrome (android), except some glitch in the begining. Otherwise, the font is very interestingly and interactively presented.
Semiapies 9y ago
The most offensively poorly-engineered page I've been to in years, all to promote Arial...Sorry, our totally original grotesque font inspired by Helvetica, don't steal!. What is IBM even doing that's worthwhile?
- rspeer 9y ago
  The page is definitely poorly engineered, but the font looks nothing like Arial or Helvetica.
  - Semiapies 9y ago
    It's poorly engineered enough to keep you from getting to the part where they talk about Plex as a Helvetica alternative. :) The Arial connection is that Arial has the same origin as a Helvetica alternative. It even shares similar differences to Helvetica, such as the construction of "C".
- robotresearcher 9y ago
  > don't steal https://github.com/IBM/plex https://github.com/IBM/plex "This Font Software is licensed under the SIL Open Font License, Version 1.1."
DanBC 9y ago
There's a lot of people saying they hate the website, and I just want you all to remember this is exactly how many people feel when you chose to use thin light grey font on a bright white background.
voicemynah 9y ago
I nearly expected the website would be a disaster even before clicking. I was not disappointed. Lot of old school companies try to use some effect on their website just for the sake of it.
smilekzs 9y ago
"1 vs l" distinction isn't very clear in the mono version --- wouldn't that be a deal-breaker for a code font?
bluenose69 9y ago
I've tried Plex but keep going back to Monaco. Somehow, my eyes grow weary faster with Plex. This may just be a function of my age, so your mileage may vary, but here's a listing of things that I think make Plex tiresome for coding: 1. The lower-case ell ("l") and number one ("1") look so similar that I need almost to squint to see the difference, if I'm tired. 2. Plex seems to distinguish between letters by small "inside" features, as opposed to "edge" features. What I mean can be seen by contrasting "a" and "g" in Plex and Monaco. I think it's this second thing that tires my eyes. While I admit that the letters are clearer in Plex than in Monaco (e.g. there's no mistaking "a" for "o" in Plex), I find that tired eyes can get enough information from the outside shape to distinguish the features, and there is a higher comfort level in viewing the characters, without the extra high-wavenumber twists and turns of the "pen". Again, I think a lot of this may just be that I have old and never-especially-great eyes. But I thought I'd mention these things, in case younger folks find their eyes growing tired and are wondering why.
- hnarn 9y ago
  Have you tried Iosevka? It's been my favorite code font for a while, mainly because it's so configurable (your #1 can be changed to your preference, and has a sane default), it's free and it's slightly narrowed which makes more code fit in the same space without sacrificing legibility.
FullyFunctional 9y ago
That web slide show was overdone IMO, but I'm a sucker for a code coding font and gave it a spin. Fired up three identical terminals with the same text, colors, and sizes, with respectively SF Mono, Source Code Pro, and now IBM Plex Mono [1]. My conclusion: OMG, what has the world come to. It's 2018 and I have more great fonts at my disposal than I know to choose from. I could honestly live with any of them, but I'll stay Plex for a bit, if just for the beautiful 7. [1] I do have other fine choices, like Inconsolata, Droid Mono, etc, but not enough time to try everything.
jldugger 9y ago
I'm confused -- why does 't' have a single rounded corner at the cross stroke? 'f' doesn't have this feature and it doesn't seem very consistent with the rest of the font.
- grzm 9y ago
  Fundamentally it comes down to style. Two practical reasons are: - to more easily distinguish 't' from similar characters, such as 'f'. Particularly with monospace fonts, rigid adherence to rules can result in character confusion. - to balance the foot of the 't' which extends to the right.
noonespecial 9y ago
The f, l, and r hurt my eyes in a way I didn't know I could be hurt until now! There's something diabolical about that right angle and unnatural narrowing.
- O_H_E 9y ago
  the "t" gets one angle with a rounded curve, and one is 90 degree sharp
jrs95 9y ago
At this point I'd wish HN would take a month off of new typefaces similar to the break from politics ;) Really though, this is sort of a silly trend. Why does every tech company need to create their own typeface? Do they actually think anyone is going to care, or even notice?
jrs95 9y ago
For what it's worth, the scrolling experience is way better on mobile. But I don't know how anyone could ever approve the desktop experience, it could easily be used as an example of what not to do with scrolling. It's the worst thing I have seen like this, personally.
paulddraper 9y ago
I was disappointed "IBM" didn't look better...the "I" comes off as too narrow standing next to the other two.
taeric 9y ago
I just recently actually read my copy of Computer Modern. Between that and the METAFONT books, it is amusing how little of this is new. And those books didn't claim to be groundbreaking. Regardless, neat article. It is interesting to get into the weeds of typography. For anyone this introduced to the topic, dive in, it is a wonderful subject!
Corrado 9y ago
Looking at the character grid near the bottom of the page[0] you can see that they have created not one, not two, but three different ways to represent zero; empty middle, dot middle, slash middle. Is there any reason for this at all? How do you even select a particular glyph? Are they on a different codepage or something? [0] https://www.ibm.com/plex/specs/ https://www.ibm.com/plex/specs/
- a_e_k 9y ago
  "OpenType features" can let you define variations within a font. There's a standard one for slashed vs. non-slashed zeroes (not sure about dotted): https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/typography/opentype/spec/features_uz#a-namezero-idzeroatag-zero https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/typography/opentype/spec/fe...
cup-of-tea 9y ago
Ah, just what a I needed, a typeface that is "global".
Ice_cream_suit 9y ago
I need to claw my eyes out, after visiting that web page.
moreentropy 9y ago
At first I liked it but then I saw the strange ß (german Eszett, ss can be used instead). From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%9F https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%9F I understand that that's the Antiqua form while nowadays the Sulzbacher form is used. But I don't know anything serious about typography.
OliverJones 9y ago
A new typeface family of this scope doesn't come along very often. Sure, plenty of new fonts come out, but they contain mostly one to four styles (Roman/Oblique Normal/Bold) and have a special purpose. Two great examples are Matthew Carter's Bell Centennial (for phone book printing) and his Carter Sans (which I use for short chunks of copy). Kris Holmes's and Chuck Bigelow's Lucida is one of the most recent comprehensive new type families, and that's from a generation ago. Other computer companies (Digital for example) helped support their effort. So this is a big deal. It's a huge effort, and they made it open source and free. That's great. Thanks IBM, for supporting type designers. No doubt some of them are early in their careers. IBM's support has definitely given them a leg up. IBM will help us see another generation of new type. It has decent ligatures ("fi" for example, look at the Slack desktop app's type to see what a ligature looks like). It only has one style of digits (figures, typeheads call them) rather than the choice of proportional and lining. But this is the 21st century and proportional figures are known as "old style". It's no surprise the team wanted to make an artists' statement about their purposes and choices, and personally I found it (their web site) worth reading. It was a big nuisance to navigate, though. I hope IBM can emerge from the cloud wars intact. It's gonna take focus. Unfortunately, a new typeface doesn't look like focus.
- chrstphrknwtn 9y ago
  Typefaces of this quality and scope come along all the time. I don't really understand how it's a big deal. Take Source {Sans, Serif, Code) Pro, by Paul D. Hunt for Adobe (also open source); it's arguably a better typeface for user interfaces, and is a much better interpretation of Franklin Gothic and related Morris Fuller Benton gothics (as Plex claims in some areas.) Also Apple's San Francisco, admittedly missing a serif variant, is a similarly broadly scoped project... of much higher quality. Both of the above typefaces have fonts with character sets / glyph counts exceeding Plex: Plex Sans Regular - 663, Source Sans Pro Regular - 832, SF Pro Text Regular - 2439. IBM Plex as an open source font is cool, however I think is of limited use to the broader design community... the formal qualities carried over from Paul Rand's IBM logo make it too idiosyncratic to use outside IBM products. For IBM, I think it's awesome, especially considering it's replacing Helvetica. Also, your terminology for figure styles is inaccurate. Proportional means of variable horizontal width (not monospaced), where the alternative is tabular figures (monospaced for tables). Old style figures can be either of the above, however their form is more like lowercase characters (an 'old style') that tend to work better in continuous text.
memco 9y ago
I Really like the style. I think the Google Font[0] page makes it much easier to see it in action. I hope someone makes a variant with coding ligatures. It appears that it does not support the polytonic Greek characters on OSX, though it shows Greek characters are in the set--not sure if that's a Mac thing or the font. [0] https://fonts.google.com/featured/Plex https://fonts.google.com/featured/Plex

240 points by uptown 9y ago

Anyone else find these sort of sites annoying to navigate? How am I supposed to know how much I need to scroll down? Is the site broken or do I just need to scroll more? Overall, I'm surprised it's taken IBM this long to put out a font.

zackkitzmiller 9y ago
Incredibly.
CabSauce 9y ago
This might be the worst version of this type of page I've ever seen.
- deleted 9y ago
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- deleted 9y ago
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- ggregoire 9y ago
  I usually think comments on HN about UX are overreacted, but wow, this website is definitely awful.
justherefortart 9y ago
Whole reason I came here to comment.
Mononokay 9y ago
It's been around for at least a year.
dharness 9y ago
Yeah wow what a horrible website...
csours 9y ago
It's almost like the UI designer took it as a personal challenge to see how horrible they could make the experience.
- alonmower 9y ago
  I read this comment thinking it was a "typical HN overreaction" but then looked at the page and oh my god you couldn't be more right
  - csours 9y ago
    I normally don't mind things like the NYT experimental pages, but this one is just egregious. When you get to the big IBM, nothing works but the scroll wheel for me. Things you expect to scroll the page: * Arrow keys * Scroll Bar * Page Up/Down Keys * Hold middle mouse button * Scroll wheel (ONLY THIS WORKS) * Mobile swipe (didn't test)
- losteric 9y ago
  Or maybe they hired an animator as their UI designer.
Terribledactyl 9y ago
It's a natural extension of awful PowerPoints
ihuman 9y ago
I can't even use the arrow keys, page up/down, or home/end to navigate with my keyboard. I hate the amount of noise I make scrolling through websites like this.
weego 9y ago
I've never experienced a site where you can't scroll back up before. And then the navigation is a tiny strip of colour that's already closed so you have no signposting as to what the hell is going on? Kudos on the most counter intuitive website I have ever seen. distinctly IBM indeed.
stefan_ 9y ago
It feels like a debug system - like I'm single-stepping animations for their "pixel perfect" correctness. There is a reason they didn't stop improving on animations after the flip book was invented.
lobo_tuerto 9y ago
It's an exercise into negative UX from IBM labs.

warent 9y ago

Am I the only one that finds this page clunky and awkward to navigate?

draw_down 9y ago
No, in fact literally the only other top level comment says the same exact thing.
- warent 9y ago
  Our posts were seconds apart, I didn't even see it until after I made mine
dexterdog 9y ago
If you didn't there would be something wrong with you.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

dssu 9y ago

This is a great example of how not to implement a scrolling website

uptown 9y ago

Here's the download page if you want to avoid the horrific-to-navigate site: https://github.com/IBM/plex/releases/tag/v1.0.1 https://github.com/IBM/plex/releases/tag/v1.0.1

erk__ 9y ago
Or if you use arch linux you can get it here: https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/ttf-ibm-plex-git/ https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/ttf-ibm-plex-git/ (I have to change as now it downloads the whole repo as it used to be in a giant repo with no release.)
SloopJon 9y ago
Any idea why they recommend TrueType over TrueType? Is that a general recommendation, or something specific to this typeface? Edit: From BoldMonday's comment in issue 103: "TrueTypes can be - and in the case of IBM Plex are - specifically hinted for screen. OpenTypes with PostScript outlines are not able to do that."
- CharlesW 9y ago
  FWIW: "Increasing resolutions and new approaches to screen rendering have reduced the requirement of extensive TrueType hinting. Apple's rendering approach on macOS ignores almost all the hints in a TrueType font, while Microsoft's ClearType ignores many hints, and according to Microsoft, works best with 'lightly hinted' fonts."[1] Also, OTF is required for advanced typography features. Given that TrueType hinting is mostly ignored, OTF is generally a better choice. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TrueType#Macintosh_and_Microsoft_Windows https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TrueType#Macintosh_and_Microso...

boznz 9y ago

Wow, What a shit web site, I'd hate to see what a payroll system looks like :-)

thrillgore 9y ago
Or an iOS app to randomly select between two columns...

2fifty3 9y ago

Great looking font, I think my scroll wheel might be exhausted from that webpage though.

seibelj 9y ago

From my experience dealing with IBM, I can only imagine this was the result of 5 different consulting teams, assisted by 3 different outsourced development groups, which was delayed numerous times, then Watson was added, and then a re-org caused by layoffs, which finally resulted in a website that couldn't scroll and caused the CPU of my high-end laptop to scream...

luma 9y ago
It feels like there should be a 9-digit contract with a hapless government entity that stands no chance of actually getting the font they thought they were paying for.
- Spooky23 9y ago
  ...and as a result a $6B payroll project will be cancelled because the integrator was depending on IBM Plex being a drop-in replacement for Comic Sans Bold.
krona 9y ago
You missed the most important part; it was initiated by a team of lawyers who were tipped off by another team who noticed the Watson design team were using a typeface on public websites which they didn't have the copyright to, and certainly didn't have the license to redistribute. Almost 2 years later, Plex was born. (This is a true story, by the way.)
- dawnerd 9y ago
  > Plex was born. And then they get sued by Plex, Inc and starts over.
- mark-r 9y ago
  Thanks for that, I was wondering why they went to all the trouble of designing a new typeface. The thing I haven't figured out yet is why they made it open source rather than keeping it exclusively for their own use.
- 9y ago

htor 9y ago

introducing scroll-o-death page

outside2344 9y ago

I'm glad they are wasting their time on this versus being relevant.

SpikeDad 9y ago
Netflix just created a custom font for themselves. If it's good enough for Netflix it's good enough for IBM. 8-)
benbenolson 9y ago
Being relevant? Their architectures and systems are quickly rising in popularity, their compiler is making great strides, and overall they're actively breaking into the HPC market, which they haven't been dominating in a very long time. I'd say they're extremely relevant, just perhaps not to your specific skillset.
- TheOtherHobbes 9y ago
  Based on this site, they're actively breaking out of the web design market. As for the rest: https://www.statista.com/statistics/269396/global-market-share-held-by-server-system-vendors-since-1st-quarter-2009/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/269396/global-market-sha... It's too early to tell if that last quarter is an amazing turn-around trend, or an anomaly.

jefe_ 9y ago

User Experience Goal: Amphetamine-Fueled Delusions of Grandeur

nsxwolf 9y ago

Apple, Samsung, Netflix, now IBM... why does everyone need their own typeface? Is it to save on licensing fees? As a user, I don't really find these fonts very distinctive, so I don't associate them with their brands.

kashprime 9y ago
I guess they don't want to get the Papyrus treatment by Ryan Gosling: https://www.theverge.com/2017/10/1/16392890/avatar-papyrus-font-ryan-gosling-saturday-night-live-tv https://www.theverge.com/2017/10/1/16392890/avatar-papyrus-f...
robotsquidward 9y ago
I think San Francisco and Roboto are distinctively Apple and Google respectively. I also think they matter more because they're system fonts on some of the biggest platforms (and maybe just because I happen to like them). If I ever see this font again, I probably won't even know I'm looking at it.
oddevan 9y ago
In the case of Netflix, it is specifically to save on licensing fees. Gotham is expensive, yo. Apple's always had their own typeface, though I don't remember them using one as heavily as San Francisco. But it feels very in-character for them. Samsung did it, I suspect, because Apple did.
- erikig 9y ago
  Damn you Tobias Frere-Jones, rolling around in your font wealth!
- grzm 9y ago
  Apple's always been focussed on design, in both marketing and UI. In marketing, for a long time everything was Apple Garamond, then Myriad. In the UI, Chicago and Geneva were heavy hitters. Now we have San Francisco. A key difference with this last one is that it's used in both the UI and in marketing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Typography_of_Apple_Inc https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Typography_of_Apple_Inc.

rado 9y ago

Love the font.

Numberwang 9y ago

Hmm, this is old right? I remember seeing this months ago.

deleted 9y ago
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zokier 9y ago
The news of Plex started coming out late last year, but I think it started appearing on e.g. IBM documentation even earlier than that.

JustSomeNobody 9y ago

I really thought this was going to be video streaming related. Then I opened the site and thought, "Ok, that makes much more sense."

dexterdog 9y ago

I switched my editor default from Liberation Mono to this and it is almost the identical font. The only thing I don't like is the mono is not sans-serif so I'll stick with Liberation.

NegativeLatency 9y ago

Looks a lot like DejaVu Sans Mono to me. Also it is not easy to tell l (lowercase L) and 1 (the number 1) apart in their monospaced font.

brailsafe 9y ago

That IBM System/360 is beautiful. I never thought I'd say that about anything IBM.

fareesh 9y ago

Lots of jank on an old Nexus 6P. Granted it's not buttery smooth anymore, but that was pretty crazy. Does it load jank free on anyone's mobile device? Curious to know if there are devices out there with no jank on this site.

Karunamon 9y ago
My 6S was having a really hard time here, and this phone isn’t exactly a slouch!

mey 9y ago

They have a type tester on the page. May I suggest plugging in the following characters. Wasn't a fan of how they are represented. lwQ{}vxz Edit: Correction, it's just Mono Italic Bold. Looks better in other formats.

parliament32 9y ago

Those 5s make me uncomfortable.

subbz 9y ago

Very IBMish. Brutalist designers will love it. I kinda like it.

tzakrajs 9y ago

Stop using the word Plex. Stop.

jf 9y ago

It is a very "IBM" typeface indeed. It reminds me of the typeface that is inspired by the IBM 1403 printer: https://1403.slantedhall.com/ https://1403.slantedhall.com/

TrisMcC 9y ago

I've been using Plex Mono for my Emacs font on MacOS for about a week and it's very nice. It has replaced Hack for the time being. The font has just the right amount of whimsy/flair for me, and the style of the italics is pretty neat.

MartinCron 9y ago
Something I never thought I would write, but here it is: "Those curly braces are gorgeous"

deleted 9y ago

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tzahola 9y ago

Their website works horribly in Safari.

marcelluspye 9y ago

This website is so ugly and hard-to-use I honestly thought it was a parody (I still kind of do). Font looks okay, though.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]

CNJ7654 9y ago

Turn on NoScript, makes the site much better :)

sunseb 9y ago

The website is a pain, the font is very nice though.

nik736 9y ago

On my 4k screen this landing page is a complete disaster.

broodbucket 9y ago
It's a disaster on everyone's screen.

bitwize 9y ago

Nice. Is it available as a Selectric typeball?

throwaway4719 9y ago
Is the website available on any known platform, including any selectric-based platforms?
- kps 9y ago
  The Selectric has nice scroll wheels.
chaoticmass 9y ago
They should make them as a promotional item.

xab9 9y ago

In 2018 frontend development reached the point where multiple pages with a working scrollbar seems to be beyond our reach. In the meantime the "glorious" IBM releases a free font, and this is newsworthy. I think the Internet, while started out as something really promising, it's done for. Let it die, before it's too late, please. Someone, pull the plug, let's start over. Maybe the next one will be better, who knows.

zachrose 9y ago

This is excellent work, and all of the source files and fonts permissively licensed and available on GitHub. https://github.com/IBM/plex https://github.com/IBM/plex

dgreensp 9y ago
Oh wow, I was not expecting that!

misterbowfinger 9y ago

I love the general design. But as others noted, the scrolling behavior is WAY terrible. Do "normal people" enjoy this type of scrolling behavior?

ghaff 9y ago

Too bad the website is so poorly designed. It's actually a nice read through the design decisions. My first glance at the IBM serif made me think it was more of a slab serif like Stymie Bold but the discussion of its use in smaller sizes foes a nice job of explaining the differences.

throwaway4719 9y ago
How were you able to read anything?
- ghaff 9y ago
  There's a menu that you can click on at the top if you move your mouse/trackpad in the right way and that brings up additional pages. Whoever designed--and I use that word in the loosest possible sense--the pages needs some remedial web design school, as does anyone who approved it.
- musage 9y ago
  IBM has always served as a medium between mankind and machine. Between the natural and the engineered. The emotional and rational. The classic and the cutting-edge. Our most important job is to help humanity and technology move forward together. IBM Plex™ brings these relationships to life through letterforms. I was able to read this stuff by first pounding my knee with my fist, then biting so hard on my left hand I nearly lost some fingertips. But I made it through it. The challenging scrolling actually provided some additional and welcome distraction from the sheer horror of the words.
  - fao_ 9y ago
    I vouched for this because it's a worthwhile criticism of a post. For the record, you're shadowbanned, by the way.

benbenolson 9y ago

I'm actually using this font globally on my system (the sans-serif, monospace, and serif version), in Firefox, i3, terminal emulator, etc. They're great fonts, my favorite my far. They're just interesting enough to be a cool font, but not so interesting that things are difficult to read or look odd.

throwaway4719 9y ago

This is comically bad.

wnevets 9y ago

I hate to be that guy but that fucking site is a pain

exabrial 9y ago

Were the overseas IBM contractors paid in units of "full page scrolls"?

chao- 9y ago

This is one of the most frustrating page navigation experiences I have had in long a while. I tend to scroll with pgup/pgdn or arrow keys (or more occasionally, space/shift+space) and when I got to the big "IBM" logo the page just kind of stopped. I thought that was all. It wasn't until I came to this thread I realized there was more, and I should look again, but even then it took me forever to: 1. Realize I needed to put my hand on my mouse, hover the tiny, thin red line to get it to expand, and then use that to navigate. 2. Flip between pgup/pgdn and arrow keys. Sometimes one set worked, sometimes another did, and it would flip at random points in the experience. Why on earth would you selectively enable and disable the browser's interaction with common navigation keys repeatedly in the span of a single page? I can understand blocking/swallowing one set if you intend to use it somewhere for something else (i.e. the text input sections), but flipping them on and off with no other use for those keys while they are blocked? It boggles the mind.

minieggs 9y ago
Wow, shift+space is great. I wish I knew about this years ago.
hammerbrostime 9y ago
Very funny, I viewed the page on my iPhone and the experience was a joy. Perhaps they overfit the experience for mobile?
munk-a 9y ago
I think you just need to get hip to the Web6.0 design patterns. This site is just the beginning of the next style revolution... that we really need to get in front of and stop quickly.
BoorishBears 9y ago
Before clicking the link: grumble grumble typical HN, top comment is whining about the webpage instead of focusing on the content. sigh After clicking the link on my smartphone: Sweet mother of Jesus, what have they done.
- 9y ago

amelius 9y ago

If it's "distinctly IBM" then why is it interesting for the rest of us? It also makes me wonder: is IBM trying to push subliminal advertisements for its brand through this typeface?

paulie_a 9y ago

Project manager for that site: "Hey need the most unusable website ever created, but with a modern feel. Bonuses of $1K for every anti pattern you can manage to incorporate"

delecti 9y ago
Even the term "anti-pattern" too graciously implies there's some sort of rhyme or reason (some "pattern") to the madness.

mhd 9y ago

I first heard about this from the iA Writer blog[1], where they used Plex Mono for their own Duospace font. I've been using the font intermittently since then (I'm still somewhat of a Monaco fanboy on OS X), and I like it quite a lot. [1]: https://ia.net/topics/in-search-of-the-perfect-writing-font/ https://ia.net/topics/in-search-of-the-perfect-writing-font/

ivan_ah 9y ago

Looks pretty nice overall, but the glyph for the digit 5 is weird, especially in bold. The notch on the left goes really deep...

goofballlogic 9y ago

What the hell were they thinking?

antoineMoPa 9y ago

I love the font and the site, it worked well in chrome (android), except some glitch in the begining. Otherwise, the font is very interestingly and interactively presented.

Semiapies 9y ago

The most offensively poorly-engineered page I've been to in years, all to promote Arial...Sorry, our totally original grotesque font inspired by Helvetica, don't steal!. What is IBM even doing that's worthwhile?

rspeer 9y ago
The page is definitely poorly engineered, but the font looks nothing like Arial or Helvetica.
- Semiapies 9y ago
  It's poorly engineered enough to keep you from getting to the part where they talk about Plex as a Helvetica alternative. :) The Arial connection is that Arial has the same origin as a Helvetica alternative. It even shares similar differences to Helvetica, such as the construction of "C".
robotresearcher 9y ago
> don't steal https://github.com/IBM/plex https://github.com/IBM/plex "This Font Software is licensed under the SIL Open Font License, Version 1.1."

DanBC 9y ago

There's a lot of people saying they hate the website, and I just want you all to remember this is exactly how many people feel when you chose to use thin light grey font on a bright white background.

voicemynah 9y ago

I nearly expected the website would be a disaster even before clicking. I was not disappointed. Lot of old school companies try to use some effect on their website just for the sake of it.

smilekzs 9y ago

"1 vs l" distinction isn't very clear in the mono version --- wouldn't that be a deal-breaker for a code font?

bluenose69 9y ago

I've tried Plex but keep going back to Monaco. Somehow, my eyes grow weary faster with Plex. This may just be a function of my age, so your mileage may vary, but here's a listing of things that I think make Plex tiresome for coding: 1. The lower-case ell ("l") and number one ("1") look so similar that I need almost to squint to see the difference, if I'm tired. 2. Plex seems to distinguish between letters by small "inside" features, as opposed to "edge" features. What I mean can be seen by contrasting "a" and "g" in Plex and Monaco. I think it's this second thing that tires my eyes. While I admit that the letters are clearer in Plex than in Monaco (e.g. there's no mistaking "a" for "o" in Plex), I find that tired eyes can get enough information from the outside shape to distinguish the features, and there is a higher comfort level in viewing the characters, without the extra high-wavenumber twists and turns of the "pen". Again, I think a lot of this may just be that I have old and never-especially-great eyes. But I thought I'd mention these things, in case younger folks find their eyes growing tired and are wondering why.

hnarn 9y ago
Have you tried Iosevka? It's been my favorite code font for a while, mainly because it's so configurable (your #1 can be changed to your preference, and has a sane default), it's free and it's slightly narrowed which makes more code fit in the same space without sacrificing legibility.

FullyFunctional 9y ago

That web slide show was overdone IMO, but I'm a sucker for a code coding font and gave it a spin. Fired up three identical terminals with the same text, colors, and sizes, with respectively SF Mono, Source Code Pro, and now IBM Plex Mono [1]. My conclusion: OMG, what has the world come to. It's 2018 and I have more great fonts at my disposal than I know to choose from. I could honestly live with any of them, but I'll stay Plex for a bit, if just for the beautiful 7. [1] I do have other fine choices, like Inconsolata, Droid Mono, etc, but not enough time to try everything.

jldugger 9y ago

I'm confused -- why does 't' have a single rounded corner at the cross stroke? 'f' doesn't have this feature and it doesn't seem very consistent with the rest of the font.

grzm 9y ago
Fundamentally it comes down to style. Two practical reasons are: - to more easily distinguish 't' from similar characters, such as 'f'. Particularly with monospace fonts, rigid adherence to rules can result in character confusion. - to balance the foot of the 't' which extends to the right.

noonespecial 9y ago

The f, l, and r hurt my eyes in a way I didn't know I could be hurt until now! There's something diabolical about that right angle and unnatural narrowing.

O_H_E 9y ago
the "t" gets one angle with a rounded curve, and one is 90 degree sharp

jrs95 9y ago

At this point I'd wish HN would take a month off of new typefaces similar to the break from politics ;) Really though, this is sort of a silly trend. Why does every tech company need to create their own typeface? Do they actually think anyone is going to care, or even notice?

jrs95 9y ago

For what it's worth, the scrolling experience is way better on mobile. But I don't know how anyone could ever approve the desktop experience, it could easily be used as an example of what not to do with scrolling. It's the worst thing I have seen like this, personally.

paulddraper 9y ago

I was disappointed "IBM" didn't look better...the "I" comes off as too narrow standing next to the other two.

taeric 9y ago

I just recently actually read my copy of Computer Modern. Between that and the METAFONT books, it is amusing how little of this is new. And those books didn't claim to be groundbreaking. Regardless, neat article. It is interesting to get into the weeds of typography. For anyone this introduced to the topic, dive in, it is a wonderful subject!

Corrado 9y ago

Looking at the character grid near the bottom of the page[0] you can see that they have created not one, not two, but three different ways to represent zero; empty middle, dot middle, slash middle. Is there any reason for this at all? How do you even select a particular glyph? Are they on a different codepage or something? [0] https://www.ibm.com/plex/specs/ https://www.ibm.com/plex/specs/

a_e_k 9y ago
"OpenType features" can let you define variations within a font. There's a standard one for slashed vs. non-slashed zeroes (not sure about dotted): https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/typography/opentype/spec/features_uz#a-namezero-idzeroatag-zero https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/typography/opentype/spec/fe...

cup-of-tea 9y ago

Ah, just what a I needed, a typeface that is "global".

Ice_cream_suit 9y ago

I need to claw my eyes out, after visiting that web page.

moreentropy 9y ago

At first I liked it but then I saw the strange ß (german Eszett, ss can be used instead). From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%9F https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%9F I understand that that's the Antiqua form while nowadays the Sulzbacher form is used. But I don't know anything serious about typography.

OliverJones 9y ago

A new typeface family of this scope doesn't come along very often. Sure, plenty of new fonts come out, but they contain mostly one to four styles (Roman/Oblique Normal/Bold) and have a special purpose. Two great examples are Matthew Carter's Bell Centennial (for phone book printing) and his Carter Sans (which I use for short chunks of copy). Kris Holmes's and Chuck Bigelow's Lucida is one of the most recent comprehensive new type families, and that's from a generation ago. Other computer companies (Digital for example) helped support their effort. So this is a big deal. It's a huge effort, and they made it open source and free. That's great. Thanks IBM, for supporting type designers. No doubt some of them are early in their careers. IBM's support has definitely given them a leg up. IBM will help us see another generation of new type. It has decent ligatures ("fi" for example, look at the Slack desktop app's type to see what a ligature looks like). It only has one style of digits (figures, typeheads call them) rather than the choice of proportional and lining. But this is the 21st century and proportional figures are known as "old style". It's no surprise the team wanted to make an artists' statement about their purposes and choices, and personally I found it (their web site) worth reading. It was a big nuisance to navigate, though. I hope IBM can emerge from the cloud wars intact. It's gonna take focus. Unfortunately, a new typeface doesn't look like focus.

chrstphrknwtn 9y ago
Typefaces of this quality and scope come along all the time. I don't really understand how it's a big deal. Take Source {Sans, Serif, Code) Pro, by Paul D. Hunt for Adobe (also open source); it's arguably a better typeface for user interfaces, and is a much better interpretation of Franklin Gothic and related Morris Fuller Benton gothics (as Plex claims in some areas.) Also Apple's San Francisco, admittedly missing a serif variant, is a similarly broadly scoped project... of much higher quality. Both of the above typefaces have fonts with character sets / glyph counts exceeding Plex: Plex Sans Regular - 663, Source Sans Pro Regular - 832, SF Pro Text Regular - 2439. IBM Plex as an open source font is cool, however I think is of limited use to the broader design community... the formal qualities carried over from Paul Rand's IBM logo make it too idiosyncratic to use outside IBM products. For IBM, I think it's awesome, especially considering it's replacing Helvetica. Also, your terminology for figure styles is inaccurate. Proportional means of variable horizontal width (not monospaced), where the alternative is tabular figures (monospaced for tables). Old style figures can be either of the above, however their form is more like lowercase characters (an 'old style') that tend to work better in continuous text.

memco 9y ago

I Really like the style. I think the Google Font[0] page makes it much easier to see it in action. I hope someone makes a variant with coding ligatures. It appears that it does not support the polytonic Greek characters on OSX, though it shows Greek characters are in the set--not sure if that's a Mac thing or the font. [0] https://fonts.google.com/featured/Plex https://fonts.google.com/featured/Plex