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I'm pretty much retired but I was an engineer and then a manager and then a CEO/VP engineering for ~20 years. If you think I'm not going to google you before I

I'm pretty much retired but I was an engineer and then a manager and then a CEO/VP engineering for ~20 years. If you think I'm not going to google you before I offered you a job you are mistaken. Of course I'm going to do that. Think of it this way. One of the questions we asked ourselves about every hire is "would they pass the grocery store test?" Which is: if we saw that person in the store would we go chat with them, because we thought that would be fun, or would we cringe and try and hide from them. It's a good test, work is not just cut and dried, there is a social aspect of work even if it is just you'd say hi outside of work. Your social media gives me a glimpse into the rest of your life and you'd better believe that is interesting info to a prospective employer.

sidlls 9y ago
What makes you think it gives an accurate or actionable glimpse?
- luckydude 9y ago
  Man, so much of what seems defensive pushback, I don't get it. Here's the deal. I ran a small company for almost 2 decades in the valley. Everyone worked with everyone else very closely. One bad apple can screw up the whole company, make everyone miserable. So I used every chunk of info I could get to make sure that a potential hire was gonna be a fit. That's just being prudent. If you are posting on mailing lists about how you screwed your boss out of a pile of work by outsourcing it to some dude in India, yeah, not a great fit. If you are posting on facebook how you partied all week on your companies' dime while they thought you were working, yeah, not so much. Etc. If you are in to Harley-Davidson motorcycles (which I hate), well, not gonna hold that against you, though I'll let you ride my r1200gs (every Harley guy who has taken me up on that walks away looking at that GS like that's the bike he should have gotten). I'm somewhat surprised that people question a hiring manager looking around. If you were building a team that had to work together are you seriously telling me you wouldn't look? I'd like to hear that from anyone who has successfully built multiple teams and then have them explain why they wouldn't look.
  - sidlls 9y ago
    I am a manager. I wouldn't look because I understand that online representations of a person paint an incomplete at best and extremely inaccurate at worst picture of the person, especially as it pertains to their ability to work, and that there isn't any solid empirical data supporting assertions like the ones you're making. Do you actually believe most of what you read on the internet? It's just amazing to me that anyone actually takes these things as seriously as you do.
    - luckydude 9y ago
      You manage what? I'd like to know because this just seems like a young person who wants to do well but hasn't been around the block.
virtuabhi 9y ago
I don't like your grocery store test at all. Before I give reasons, can you elaborate on what things make you "cringe"? Edit: Surprised at the support for grocery store test. If I was hiring and doing the grocery store test, then I would reject everyone who has posted in support of this test as they make me "cringe".
- baq 9y ago
  it doesn't really matter. would you like to work for someone who cringes when he sees you? it's not a good career choice.
- Humdeee 9y ago
  Is it not obvious? It's a visual opinion that is open to interpretation as much as any company that can consider you a fit for their culture. It's not a universal cringe per se, but likely falls into 'outside of social norms' cringe.
  - s73v3r_ 9y ago
    I really doubt the "grocery store test" is based at all on appearances, but if, after knowing you, would they want to go up and talk to you if they saw you outside of work, or would they try and hide, and hope you don't notice them.
    - luckydude 9y ago
      This guy/gal gets it. That's exactly what I was trying to say and apparently failed at saying.
- jarsin 9y ago
  I don't think I have ever once in my life seen someone in the grocery store that I want to have a fun chat with. Excluding potential dates haha.
- luckydude 9y ago
  I think I failed to communicate. Let's try a different version and call it the "no assholes rule". If I hired someone who was a top 1% engineer but was a complete asshole to work with, that's someone who would fail the asshole test. It's extremely unlikely I'd have hired that person, we built a team of people who were both good at what they did and friendly with each other. The grocery store test I apparently completely screwed up in getting across what I meant. Someone who failed the asshole test would fail the grocery store test. What the grocery store test is trying to get across is how you would react when you saw a co-worker outside of work. Do you like them enough that you'd go say hi, maybe chat a little before moving on with your shopping? Or do you dislike them enough that you'd try and avoid them? If applied in the right way, it makes you think about the person in a broader sense than just their coding skills. If you like how they code and you would like to chat with them outside of work, that's a pretty strong indicator, in my experience, that you'll bond as a team. I'm not sure how I failed so badly at explaining that, whatever. The point is that building a team is not just about individual skills, it's also about how the team gets along. A soccer player recently was trying to make the same point when he said "you can buy any player you want, you can't buy a team". tl;dr: building a team is not just about skill, it's also about chemistry.
jehlakj 9y ago
You mention you judge a candidates social media prior to offering the job. Does that mean you have at least done an in person interview with them? I ask because it’s really hard to determine a person by their social media. Maybe unless for an older generation where their real life aligns with their social media presence. But for many younger generations, they couldn’t be more different.
- garrettdc 9y ago
  Regardless, a social media profile displays the things that you value - or at least that you claim to value. Social media tends to be a highlight reel for many younger people, so having insight into what they view as "highlights" gives you insight into what they value and how they want to be perceived. If you see someone with wildly differing values on social media from the ones that they portrayed in an interview or application, then that should definitely be a red flag when reviewing their application.
- luckydude 9y ago
  Resume screen first. Phone screen next. In person screen next though I may well have done the google search before the in person thing if I'm paying to fly them out. And it's worth stating that for me, social media is any sort of web foot print I can find with google (or these days duckduckgo). We did the same thing with prospective customers. You google them and see if you find a bunch of people complaining about them. Yes? Work less hard on that sale. No, everyone loves them? Work more hard on that sale.
tzahola 9y ago
I never talk to strangers in the grocery store. Do you?

sidlls 9y ago

What makes you think it gives an accurate or actionable glimpse?

luckydude 9y ago
Man, so much of what seems defensive pushback, I don't get it. Here's the deal. I ran a small company for almost 2 decades in the valley. Everyone worked with everyone else very closely. One bad apple can screw up the whole company, make everyone miserable. So I used every chunk of info I could get to make sure that a potential hire was gonna be a fit. That's just being prudent. If you are posting on mailing lists about how you screwed your boss out of a pile of work by outsourcing it to some dude in India, yeah, not a great fit. If you are posting on facebook how you partied all week on your companies' dime while they thought you were working, yeah, not so much. Etc. If you are in to Harley-Davidson motorcycles (which I hate), well, not gonna hold that against you, though I'll let you ride my r1200gs (every Harley guy who has taken me up on that walks away looking at that GS like that's the bike he should have gotten). I'm somewhat surprised that people question a hiring manager looking around. If you were building a team that had to work together are you seriously telling me you wouldn't look? I'd like to hear that from anyone who has successfully built multiple teams and then have them explain why they wouldn't look.
- sidlls 9y ago
  I am a manager. I wouldn't look because I understand that online representations of a person paint an incomplete at best and extremely inaccurate at worst picture of the person, especially as it pertains to their ability to work, and that there isn't any solid empirical data supporting assertions like the ones you're making. Do you actually believe most of what you read on the internet? It's just amazing to me that anyone actually takes these things as seriously as you do.
  - luckydude 9y ago
    You manage what? I'd like to know because this just seems like a young person who wants to do well but hasn't been around the block.

virtuabhi 9y ago

I don't like your grocery store test at all. Before I give reasons, can you elaborate on what things make you "cringe"? Edit: Surprised at the support for grocery store test. If I was hiring and doing the grocery store test, then I would reject everyone who has posted in support of this test as they make me "cringe".

baq 9y ago
it doesn't really matter. would you like to work for someone who cringes when he sees you? it's not a good career choice.
Humdeee 9y ago
Is it not obvious? It's a visual opinion that is open to interpretation as much as any company that can consider you a fit for their culture. It's not a universal cringe per se, but likely falls into 'outside of social norms' cringe.
- s73v3r_ 9y ago
  I really doubt the "grocery store test" is based at all on appearances, but if, after knowing you, would they want to go up and talk to you if they saw you outside of work, or would they try and hide, and hope you don't notice them.
  - luckydude 9y ago
    This guy/gal gets it. That's exactly what I was trying to say and apparently failed at saying.
jarsin 9y ago
I don't think I have ever once in my life seen someone in the grocery store that I want to have a fun chat with. Excluding potential dates haha.
luckydude 9y ago
I think I failed to communicate. Let's try a different version and call it the "no assholes rule". If I hired someone who was a top 1% engineer but was a complete asshole to work with, that's someone who would fail the asshole test. It's extremely unlikely I'd have hired that person, we built a team of people who were both good at what they did and friendly with each other. The grocery store test I apparently completely screwed up in getting across what I meant. Someone who failed the asshole test would fail the grocery store test. What the grocery store test is trying to get across is how you would react when you saw a co-worker outside of work. Do you like them enough that you'd go say hi, maybe chat a little before moving on with your shopping? Or do you dislike them enough that you'd try and avoid them? If applied in the right way, it makes you think about the person in a broader sense than just their coding skills. If you like how they code and you would like to chat with them outside of work, that's a pretty strong indicator, in my experience, that you'll bond as a team. I'm not sure how I failed so badly at explaining that, whatever. The point is that building a team is not just about individual skills, it's also about how the team gets along. A soccer player recently was trying to make the same point when he said "you can buy any player you want, you can't buy a team". tl;dr: building a team is not just about skill, it's also about chemistry.

jehlakj 9y ago

You mention you judge a candidates social media prior to offering the job. Does that mean you have at least done an in person interview with them? I ask because it’s really hard to determine a person by their social media. Maybe unless for an older generation where their real life aligns with their social media presence. But for many younger generations, they couldn’t be more different.

garrettdc 9y ago
Regardless, a social media profile displays the things that you value - or at least that you claim to value. Social media tends to be a highlight reel for many younger people, so having insight into what they view as "highlights" gives you insight into what they value and how they want to be perceived. If you see someone with wildly differing values on social media from the ones that they portrayed in an interview or application, then that should definitely be a red flag when reviewing their application.
luckydude 9y ago
Resume screen first. Phone screen next. In person screen next though I may well have done the google search before the in person thing if I'm paying to fly them out. And it's worth stating that for me, social media is any sort of web foot print I can find with google (or these days duckduckgo). We did the same thing with prospective customers. You google them and see if you find a bunch of people complaining about them. Yes? Work less hard on that sale. No, everyone loves them? Work more hard on that sale.

tzahola 9y ago

I never talk to strangers in the grocery store. Do you?