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I don't see much value in trying to use logical speculation to generalize such behaviors to an entire species. Anybody who has observed animals and pets will h
by lovelearning 9y ago
I don't see much value in trying to use logical speculation to generalize such behaviors to an entire species.
Anybody who has observed animals and pets will have noticed how each and every animal has its own personality, likes, dislikes and peculiarities. Just like people, who, despite our airs, are just another species.
Some of my pets eat people food which my other pets don't even look at. Some of them play with balls, while others don't. On YouTube, I follow a cool guy who has a pure vegetarian pet cat getting along with many normal cats.
This particular elephant might have been simply curious about the smoke or might have been playing with it for the heck of it.
They are individual peculiarities and I don't think any conclusion can be drawn about the entire species from them.
- nitrogen 9y ago...a pure vegetarian pet cat... How does the cat obtain whatever missing nutrients cause most cats to be obligate carnivores?
- semi-extrinsic 9y agoProbably eats mice/birds/etc. or the food of other cats when the owner isn't looking.
- PhasmaFelis 9y agoIt seems plausible that those nutrients might be found in certain plants, and could be identified and concentrated. I wouldn't risk it with my cats, but plenty of people do feed their cats veggie kibble and I haven't heard of them dying of malnutrition in droves.
- ben_w 9y agoIIRC the nutrient that makes cats obligate carnivores is taurine. Although it can be found in seaweed, or synthesised in a lab, cats and water makes me think this is unlikely in nature. (That said, human edible != cat edible, don’t just feed seaweed to your cat without asking an expert). https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/28849526/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/28849526/
- TeMPOraL 9y ago> IIRC the nutrient that makes cats obligate carnivores is taurine. > That said, human edible != cat edible, don’t just feed seaweed to your cat without asking an expert Or energy drinks.
- ben_w 9y agoStimulants — or drugs in general, legal or not — should definitely not be assumed safe on a different species. (Also: not all energy drinks are vegetarian, so wouldn’t always solve the diet puzzle even if you confirmed it as safe).
- 220V_USKettle 9y agoMy cat refuses to drink Monster, but insists on Red Bull Blueberry. They are finicky creatures.
- lovelearning 9y agoI'm not sure actually. In many videos, he offers it things like fish and chicken and wet cat food but that cat doesn't touch them. It does eat some dry kibbles - maybe that's enough? Now that I think about it, calling it "pure vegetarian" was my mistake because it does eat those kibbles which probably contain non-vegetarian nutrients.
- icebraining 9y agoYes, dry kibble certainly contains meat (fish, poultry or even red meat).
- celticninja 9y agoalso, unless it is an indoor only cat you cannot determine what it actually eats.
- YesNoYesNoNo101 9y agoProbably it doesn't and will die early.
- cimmanom 9y agoAnd it's not just that cats have to eat meat to get nutrients they need. Their systems aren't able to process significant amounts of carbohydrates at all. A cat consuming more than a couple grams of carbs per day will develop kidney disease extremely quickly.
- blacksmith_tb 9y agoThat seems too low a threshold - lots of cheap cat food (esp. chow/kibble) has much higher levels of carbs, and while I am sure they aren't great for cats, there also doesn't seem to be an epidemic of feline kidney failure...
- cimmanom 9y agoActually, there is. It's among the most common causes of death for domestic cats ([1] says the second most common). It's been what killed most of the cats I've ever known (notable exceptions being two that got hit by cars and the one who, no kidding, died of mercury poisoning after being fed nothing but canned tuna her entire life). [1] http://skeptvet.com/Blog/2015/03/longevity-causes-of-death-in-pet-cats/ http://skeptvet.com/Blog/2015/03/longevity-causes-of-death-i...
- LarryL 9y agoI've been told that the cats of a great-grandparent were only fed pastas... I've always wondered how they could survive on that! But I suspect that since those cats lived mostly outside, they probably ate many other things, including small animals they caught in gardens, sheds, etc.
- tomcooks 9y agoCan confirm, in rural southern Europe cats were (and still are were I live ATM) fed scraps and leftovers (if any); if they don't like that the fields outside are an excellent training ground for their primal instincts
- Ensorceled 9y agoIf it goes outside at all ... it doesn't. We had a cat that didn't eat cat food from May until October, we didn't assume it was a breatharian during that time. When our cat disappeared (we assume a fox or wolf got her) after almost a decade of this, the farmers to either side of us started having mice and rat problems again :-)
- arama471 9y agoHow is the the youtuber making sure the cat still gets stuff like taurine? I ask because I've always heard that cats are obligate carnivores and cannot live off a vegan/vegetarian diet[1]. [1] https://pets.webmd.com/features/vegetarian-diet-dogs-cats https://pets.webmd.com/features/vegetarian-diet-dogs-cats
- zaarn 9y agoAt the very least a vegetarian diet would require a cat to eat dietary supplements, though I doubt it would be healthy (and still vegetarian)
- latch 9y agoHow does a vegan get B12? Synthesis. Synthesized taurine is already added to some pet food. A cursory search shows that small levels of taurine is available from vegan sources. Goat and buffalo milk appear to be the best vegetarian source, but, if ~75mg/day for a cat is correct, neither seem close to significant enough.
- 52-6F-62 9y agoI have a natural b12 deficiency and can’t eat a vegetarian diet right now because of it. At the same time lactose intolerance runs in the family (though I don’t have much of a problem wth it). My doctor ordered me to eat more red meat. The difference in my overall well-being has been exponential over the past two years because of it.
- amelius 9y agoHow did you discover you had a deficiency?
- chrisvalleybay 9y agoDo a blood test. All vegetarians should do blood tests every now and then. As an aside; I ate a vegan diet for 2-3 years and my B12 was fine. That’s not to say it would’ve been fine 2-3 years later, though.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- nasredin 9y ago"pet cat" And the other type being a stray cat? Confused about the term. Not a cat person myself.
- alex_hitchins 9y agoI made the automatic assumption the poster meant a cat that was well domiciled and enjoyed human contact. Come cats that are pets exist in a more co-living agreement, where you just agree to live alongside them and you keep your lives separate. Very much a cat person myself.
- lepton 9y agoBarn cats, mousers
- pc86 9y agoWhat exactly is confusing about the term "pet cat?" It's a cat. It's the man's pet.
- hfdgiutdryg 9y ago"he has a pet bird" "she has a pet squirrel" There's nothing wrong with "pet X", you're just used to dogs and cats being pets by default.
- xg15 9y agoI think you can "generalize" in the way that members of the species are in principle capable of such things, not that they'll necessarily do it. Also I think the idea of animals having "personalities" is itself still contested, so additional observations that support it may help. I think it's like the incident with the crow Betty. It didn't show that all new-caledonian crows were super smart, but it showed that they are in principle capable of deliberate, creative problem-solving and are able to employ it if circumstances align just right.
- paulie_a 9y ago> vegetarian cat Aka animal abuse
- tomcooks 9y agoIf you read comments you'll notice the cat is one of a group of non vegetarians, and is offered alternatives which it refused. On top of that the cat might also catch mice, lizards or birds while the owner is away.
- nugi 9y agoStill animal abuse to deliberately malnurish your pets. Don't excuse abuse for ego reasons.
- tomcooks 9y agoI couldn't care less about cats or vegetarianism, so no worries my friend the excuse is in your reality exclusively
- lovelearning 9y agoThere is no deliberate malnourishment. Repeating the comment I wrote above... Given the context of his life and the views he expresses about animals in his vlogs, I strongly disagree. > The man takes in rescue dogs, cats, monkeys and (in the past) even a handicapped illtreated tiger. He has some 40-50 pets in his home. There's even a video where he rescues a rat from being eaten by one of his cats, and releases it outside. > He has offered that cat multiple varieties of cat food and meat in many videos. He himself has expressed concern that it's not eating the proteins it needs. If an animal refuses to eat food that is otherwise good quality and relished by all its friends, how can it be animal abuse?
- lovelearning 9y agoGiven the context of his life and the views he expresses about animals in his vlogs, I strongly disagree. > The man takes in rescue dogs, cats, monkeys and (in the past) even a handicapped illtreated tiger. He has some 40-50 pets in his home. There's even a video where he rescues a rat from being eaten by one of his cats, and releases it outside. > He has offered that cat multiple varieties of cat food and meat in many videos. He himself has expressed concern that it's not eating the proteins it needs. If an animal refuses to eat food that is otherwise good quality and relished by all its friends, how can it be animal abuse?
- threepipeproblm 9y ago"Having a vegetarian cat," also known as animal abuse. https://www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/nutrition-greats/francis-m-pottenger-md/ https://www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/nutrition-greats/...
- kerkeslager 9y agoMaybe gather some context before making accusations? The cat in question seems to choose a vegetarian diet despite the caretaker giving it non-vegetarian food, and is likely hunting for meat when the caretaker isn't watching.
- threepipeproblm 9y agoYes I read that above. Cats require a diet consisting almost entirely of animal protein and their livers cannot process the toxins in plant foods. This is still abusive behavior. Sorry if it feels bad to realize you have supported this, but you should stop... the science is clear.
- lukeschlather 9y agoDo you have a link to a study that supports your assertion? I find it difficult to believe that plant foods are universally toxic to cats. In fact that sounds like it can't possibly be true or scientifically verified.
- nugi 9y agoSeriously too lazy to wikipedia 'cat' and depend on your biases?
- kerkeslager 9y agoAgain, maybe gather context before making accusations? The assertion is that a cat which chooses vegetarian cat food is probably fine because it's getting the necessary nutrients from hunting while the caretaker isn't watching. Could you quote anything from the Wikipedia page which refutes this assertion? Linked for your convenience: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat#Nutrition https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat#Nutrition I'm guessing you don't actually intend to propose force-feeding meat to a cat that doesn't want it, but in context that's what you're arguing for.
- tree_of_item 9y agoI don't believe for a second that there was ever a "vegetarian" cat anywhere on this Earth. Cats simply need to eat meat, period.
- HankB99 9y agoOur kids have a corgi that eats corn cobs (leftovers when we have corn on the cob.) I guess he sees the horses eating them and is convinced they must be good. Perhaps it is an acquired taste. He once got into serious trouble by eating some medicated grain intended for the horses. He still eats regular dog food too. I think the elephant is just picking up something dusty. Maybe there's salt in it.