10 ms·

Tesla fatal car crash prompts NTSB investigation

114 points by 11thEarlOfMar 9y ago

danso 9y ago
FWIW, previous discussion (17 comments) from several days ago, back when news of the fatal accident was first known: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16669241 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16669241 edit: Worth pointing out that in the previous Tesla fatality investigated by the NTSB for Autopilot-related issues, the victim was well known as someone who posted videos that showed off his Tesla's Autopilot capability. [0] I don't think anything like that is known about the 38-year-old victim in this week's incident. More details of that accident are here, from the San Jose Merc: https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/03/27/ntsb-investigating-fatal-crash-on-highway-101-involving-a-tesla/ https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/03/27/ntsb-investigating-fa... > Friday morning, a San Mateo man died when his Tesla Model X crashed at the Highway 101 and Highway 85 connector, authorities said. Wei Huang, 38, was traveling in the carpool lane of southbound 101 around 9:30 a.m. that morning when he collided with the barrier separating his lane from the Highway 85 flyover carpool lane, according to the California Highway Patrol. [0] https://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/02/business/joshua-brown-technology-enthusiast-tested-the-limits-of-his-tesla.html https://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/02/business/joshua-brown-tec...
RcouF1uZ4gsC 9y ago
Looks like TSLA dropped nearly 10% today (including after hours). https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/TSLA?p=TSLA https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/TSLA?p=TSLA With the Uber accident, I think the public is going to be very wary about over-hyped self driving claims. Tesla is a big offender in that regards where the marketing is that its collision avoidance and lane assistance technology is "Autopilot".
- MBCook 9y ago
  This isn’t the only thing that has happened, a major hedge fund guy apparently predicted that they’ll be bankrupt within four months unless something really big changes because they’re spending is totally unsustainable.
  - thematt 9y ago
    Their corporate debt also got downgraded to B3 by Moody's today.
    - pishpash 9y ago
      In a few years time we may look at the confluence of events as the beginning of the pricking of the bubble.
    - grzm 9y ago
      What's frustrating for me is I don't know how much to trust the ratings agencies any more after their involvement in the 2008 financial crisis. Moody's in particular was fined over $800 million. Admittedly part of that is ignorance of how the agencies have performed overall, but that is such a strong black mark. Trust is one of those things that once lost is hard to regain.
      - t3rmi 9y ago
        Maybe we can trust the bad ratings but not the good ones :P
      - saiya-jin 9y ago
        You're completely right in not trusting those agencies, they are generally big pile of shit and egos and little more (to be polite). The problem is, markets +-trust them, since there isn't anything better (although bringing better than shit shouldn't be impossible).
    - greglindahl 9y ago
      It was junk when it was issued, so this isn't necessarily what caused market motion.
      - akvadrako 9y ago
        True, but their new borrowing rate is about 7% and last year it was 3% I think.
- simonh 9y ago
  We don't yet even know if Autopilot was engaged.
matte_black 9y ago
If one more incident happens like this within another week, it will be an epidemic and self-driving cars are finished.
- jasongill 9y ago
  While I don't disagree that continued bad press could set back consumer confidence in this new technology, I think the wheels are already in motion - self driving vehicles (in some form) are coming, like it or not.
  - gwbas1c 9y ago
    Setting back consumer confidence is a good thing: Anyone who thinks automated cars will be ready before 2030 is delusional. 2030 is coming soon, and people have short memories.
    - tigershark 9y ago
      Waymo is already operating self driving cars without a safety driver moving people around Chandler. So I guess that self driving cars are already here.
      - Piskvorrr 9y ago
        "The future is already here — it's just not very evenly distributed." -William Gibson In other words, yes, you will have high-tech enclaves ("works around Chandler because we already know how to drive there"); they will be minor compared to the rest of the world still living in 20th century (if even that). Try driving a SDC outside the population centers - this is literally uncharted territory. "But but but cities are hard, everything else is EASY!" Oh yeah? Once SDVs venture out in the open, we'll see another wave of deaths (beyond the one that begins now): "car drove itself off badly marked road", "car stranded itself and did something profoundly stupid" etc. Driving with exact maps takes off one of the hard parts; having a point cloud of the entire continent sounds improbable.
    - 9y ago
Overtonwindow 9y ago
Perhaps I missed it but can someone explain why the NTSB is getting involved? Was it at the request of some official?
- danielvf 9y ago
  The NTSB gets to pick its highway investigations. No one has to call them in. (49 CFR 831.30) They don’t investigate many per year though, so this is something special. I’m guessing they will be investigating these new technology crashes.
  - greglindahl 9y ago
    ... or the apparent failure of the crash barrier. Which is a relatively new type, when they built that flyover it had a sand barrel crash barrier.
  - michaelt 9y ago
    They might have been waiting for a severe EV battery fire to investigate. After all, EVs are becoming increasingly common; if fire departments need special training or equipment, now's the time to issue recommendations.
zaroth 9y ago
There’s excellent discussion about the accident at the Tesla forum. [1] The big take-away from their research is that particular exit-only left-lane (which is one of two side by side carpool lanes) is poorly marked, has been consistently gotten worse as changes have been made to the road over the last several years, does not have proper lane markings (missing chevrons in the non-lane), routinely has cars cutting right across the gore point (to the point where there are dash cam videos of almost accidents at that exact point linked in the forum) and, most damning of all, the resettable safety cushion device [2] which protects the gore point had already been hit just recently and there’s evidence it had not been reset when it was hit again by the Model X, which meant the X suffered a direct impact with a narrow slice of concrete. If anything I think NTSB should be investigating Caltrans for this one. [1] - https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/model-x-crash-on-us-101-mountain-view-ca.111505/ https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/model-x-crash-on-us-... [2] - https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/posts/2636752/ https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/posts/2636752/
- cdibona 9y ago
  I commute on this part of the road every single day, and every day there are people whipping and and out of the two hov lanes as they approach the flyway fork. The model X was probably trying to make it into the flyway at the last minute or continue down the 101 part at the last moment, cut across thinking they had time, and fatally misjudged. NTSB should look into this in the event that the person was under autopilot at the time, or if there was some flaw in the design of the model X that should have helped or mitigated the death of the driver. I would love to see better guidelines for tesla and for emt/fire staff as the road was shut down for about 6 hours while they tried to deal with the battery. Someone from tesla eventually came down and helped the fire dept deal with the fire... So, sure, this is a tricky and maybe even dangerous fork, and caltrans will probably put in those dividers like the ones on southbound old middlefield road, but its okay and smart to look into the driver, the model x and the subsequent 6 hours of delay and blockage to improve safety across the board.
  - grzm 9y ago
    > "NTSB should look into this in the event that the person was under autopilot at the time, or if there was some flaw in the design of the model X that should have helped or mitigated the death of the driver. I would love to see better guidelines for tesla and for emt/fire staff as the road was shut down for about 6 hours while they tried to deal with the battery. Someone from tesla eventually came down and helped the fire dept deal with the fire..." This is explicitly what the NTSB mentioned in their tweet (included in the article) announcing the investigation: > "2 NTSB investigators conducting Field Investigation for fatal March 23, 2018, crash of a Tesla near Mountain View, CA. Unclear if automated control system was active at time of crash. Issues examined include: post-crash fire, steps to make vehicle safe for removal from scene." https://twitter.com/NTSB_Newsroom/status/978651644417265664 https://twitter.com/NTSB_Newsroom/status/978651644417265664
rocky1138 9y ago
How many other car manufacturers have had accidents investigated by the NTSB?
- mc32 9y ago
  They usually investigate companies whose products have a major impact on safety on the roadways [firestone for the Explorer rollovers, for example]. Anyhow, if there's an extra-ordinary vehicular/transport accident of note, they will likely investigate.
  - greglindahl 9y ago
    NTSB also investigates failures of highway safety equipment, such as the crash barrier in that location. Which may or may not have been missing after a recent crash.
    - mc32 9y ago
      Good point as it appears the impact attenuator had not been replaced after having been compressed by what appears to have been a previous accident, if the photos and timelines by witness are correct.
mc32 9y ago
This might sound a bit retroactive, but why not require that systems which allow for even temporary autonomous mode have road-embedded systems and real-time comms with neighbors in order to be activational? That is, do not allow autonomous mode, unless there is an old-school road-embedded autonav system and if there are other vehicles on the road, it be able to realtime comm with at least xx% of its directional and radial neighbors (to add predictability and reduce misinformation.) This in addition to all current guidance systems. Obvs road-embedded systems do not account for debris, accidents, etc., but know the ideal path and would be backup-of last resort (incapacitated operator, other systems down). Real-time comms with neighbors surfaces good information and buries stale or inaccurate info.
- 83457 9y ago
  Because then we would never have autonomous cars
  - mc32 9y ago
    I would contend that. Dissemination (even distribution) might be slower, but it could evolve in specialized local areas (large campuses, special transit corridors, etc.) and slowly but safely expand outside those areas.
    - greglindahl 9y ago
      Given that you don't have any idea if autopilot was involved in this accident, why are you calling for anything to change? Shouldn't you wait until a few more facts are known?
      - mc32 9y ago
        That's true with regard to this incident. But there are the incidents by other developers of the technologies where the systems have proven at fault. What I'm saying is that given that the technology has not yet proven itself in demanding scenarios, we may ask for more rigorous requirements if this is to become the default navigation mode of the future (no human intervention). Do we have data on how many times people have had to avert an incident that wasn't reported (my autonav almost crashed me, but I took over)? If we had public data, we could make some kind of assessment but even then, if they proved good, we could make them even better yet with the additional support/failsafe systems.
kosei 9y ago
So, is the NTSB staffed/staffing up to accommodate the massive increase in these types of investigations that are likely to crop up over the next few years?
- manicdee 9y ago
  Why would there be a massive increase in these kinds of accidents?
  - macintux 9y ago
    I imagine the point the parent was trying to make is that the NTSB will be more interested in autonomy-related accidents than common car crashes, and as more cars with autonomous features are sold there will be more such accidents to investigate, regardless of how good the systems may be. So today the NTSB probably investigates very, very few car crashes, but that should rise quite a bit.
dingo_bat 9y ago
You know it's something to do with the autopilot when NTSB invokes itself to do a car crash investigation.
- greglindahl 9y ago
  People are assuming that all over this discussion, but it's not necessarily the case. I drive past that location on a regular basis, usually in the carpool lane and into the left exit. I've seen many drivers cut over from the exiting left lane to the main road, often dangerously. So no, I wouldn't assume autopilot is involved at all.
hsrada 9y ago
A post on Tesla's blog about this incident - "What We Know About Last Week's Accident" https://www.tesla.com/blog/what-we-know-about-last-weeks-accident https://www.tesla.com/blog/what-we-know-about-last-weeks-acc...
dayaz36 9y ago
Why is this a story? Are Tesla cars not allowed to get into accidents?
- sjwright 9y ago
  Volvo makes remarkable claims about the safety of their vehicles. Tesla has claimed their cars are the safest in the industry. So, yes.
- OldArrow 9y ago
  Why are comment about Uber accident different than about Tesla accident. Why are many so biased about the subject. In Uber case everyone was levelheaded about the news and waited for official answer . When Tesla maked an accident there are 50% of post questioning about if it happend , why report and useless armchair reporting about conditions of the road.
  - rm_-rf_slash 9y ago
    The difference is that the Uber accident was the first pedestrian fatality of an autonomous vehicle, whereas fatal crashes of drivers have been happening for a few years now.
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TomK32 9y ago
Now with discussion being a lot about the safety of this lane and barrier, here's a thought that could improve road safety for everyone: With more and more auto-piloting cars on the road calculating the road and make decisions on what's the safest way to continue, wouldn't be it rather easy for this data to flow back? Spots that are often causing trouble for the brains of the autopilot could then be identified easily and be the road, markings, signage, etc improved much quicker. Today's method are most likely a mix of experience and looking at the fatality and accident statistics for last year.
- slivym 9y ago
  It may be a bit of a political problem. "Hey, why are the potholes on my road not getting fixed, but Tesla gets the government to paint new chevrons on some fancy highway"
  - TomK32 9y ago
    With almost everyone in a SUV potholes become a feature...
- skgoa 9y ago
  This is being looked into right now by Here, VW etc. Their plan is to for all cars that use the Here map backend (All Merc, BMW, VAG cars plus probably others who join down the line) to send updates automatically. MobilEye (now owned by Intel) is working on a similar system.
fndrplayer13 9y ago
Have we seen similar levels of damage in other cars that carry large battery packs and have been in head-on-collisions? I dont really have any commentary one way or another about autopilot or the safety of batteries, I'm just thinking there are probably other accidents that have happened in the industry in similar conditions to this. For example, the Prius and Volt have been on the road for quite some time, and both cars carry relatively large batteries (though certainly not as large as that on a Model X). When involved in head-on collisions do they see such drastic damage/fires? Just curious. I don't know that its even fair to compare those types of vehicles given the difference in the size of battery.
- mrguyorama 9y ago
  I think the old prius used lead-acid batteries, IE conventional automotive batteries. This significantly reduced the risk of fire, though I don't think that was the main reason for choosing them
  - jhayward 9y ago
    No, all Prius prior to model year 2017 used NiMh batteries. Some in 2017 were starting to ship with Li-ion batteries.

114 points by 11thEarlOfMar 9y ago

FWIW, previous discussion (17 comments) from several days ago, back when news of the fatal accident was first known: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16669241 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16669241 edit: Worth pointing out that in the previous Tesla fatality investigated by the NTSB for Autopilot-related issues, the victim was well known as someone who posted videos that showed off his Tesla's Autopilot capability. [0] I don't think anything like that is known about the 38-year-old victim in this week's incident. More details of that accident are here, from the San Jose Merc: https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/03/27/ntsb-investigating-fatal-crash-on-highway-101-involving-a-tesla/ https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/03/27/ntsb-investigating-fa... > Friday morning, a San Mateo man died when his Tesla Model X crashed at the Highway 101 and Highway 85 connector, authorities said. Wei Huang, 38, was traveling in the carpool lane of southbound 101 around 9:30 a.m. that morning when he collided with the barrier separating his lane from the Highway 85 flyover carpool lane, according to the California Highway Patrol. [0] https://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/02/business/joshua-brown-technology-enthusiast-tested-the-limits-of-his-tesla.html https://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/02/business/joshua-brown-tec...

RcouF1uZ4gsC 9y ago

Looks like TSLA dropped nearly 10% today (including after hours). https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/TSLA?p=TSLA https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/TSLA?p=TSLA With the Uber accident, I think the public is going to be very wary about over-hyped self driving claims. Tesla is a big offender in that regards where the marketing is that its collision avoidance and lane assistance technology is "Autopilot".

MBCook 9y ago
This isn’t the only thing that has happened, a major hedge fund guy apparently predicted that they’ll be bankrupt within four months unless something really big changes because they’re spending is totally unsustainable.
- thematt 9y ago
  Their corporate debt also got downgraded to B3 by Moody's today.
  - pishpash 9y ago
    In a few years time we may look at the confluence of events as the beginning of the pricking of the bubble.
  - grzm 9y ago
    What's frustrating for me is I don't know how much to trust the ratings agencies any more after their involvement in the 2008 financial crisis. Moody's in particular was fined over $800 million. Admittedly part of that is ignorance of how the agencies have performed overall, but that is such a strong black mark. Trust is one of those things that once lost is hard to regain.
    - t3rmi 9y ago
      Maybe we can trust the bad ratings but not the good ones :P
    - saiya-jin 9y ago
      You're completely right in not trusting those agencies, they are generally big pile of shit and egos and little more (to be polite). The problem is, markets +-trust them, since there isn't anything better (although bringing better than shit shouldn't be impossible).
  - greglindahl 9y ago
    It was junk when it was issued, so this isn't necessarily what caused market motion.
    - akvadrako 9y ago
      True, but their new borrowing rate is about 7% and last year it was 3% I think.
simonh 9y ago
We don't yet even know if Autopilot was engaged.

matte_black 9y ago

If one more incident happens like this within another week, it will be an epidemic and self-driving cars are finished.

jasongill 9y ago
While I don't disagree that continued bad press could set back consumer confidence in this new technology, I think the wheels are already in motion - self driving vehicles (in some form) are coming, like it or not.
- gwbas1c 9y ago
  Setting back consumer confidence is a good thing: Anyone who thinks automated cars will be ready before 2030 is delusional. 2030 is coming soon, and people have short memories.
  - tigershark 9y ago
    Waymo is already operating self driving cars without a safety driver moving people around Chandler. So I guess that self driving cars are already here.
    - Piskvorrr 9y ago
      "The future is already here — it's just not very evenly distributed." -William Gibson In other words, yes, you will have high-tech enclaves ("works around Chandler because we already know how to drive there"); they will be minor compared to the rest of the world still living in 20th century (if even that). Try driving a SDC outside the population centers - this is literally uncharted territory. "But but but cities are hard, everything else is EASY!" Oh yeah? Once SDVs venture out in the open, we'll see another wave of deaths (beyond the one that begins now): "car drove itself off badly marked road", "car stranded itself and did something profoundly stupid" etc. Driving with exact maps takes off one of the hard parts; having a point cloud of the entire continent sounds improbable.
  - 9y ago

Overtonwindow 9y ago

Perhaps I missed it but can someone explain why the NTSB is getting involved? Was it at the request of some official?

danielvf 9y ago
The NTSB gets to pick its highway investigations. No one has to call them in. (49 CFR 831.30) They don’t investigate many per year though, so this is something special. I’m guessing they will be investigating these new technology crashes.
- greglindahl 9y ago
  ... or the apparent failure of the crash barrier. Which is a relatively new type, when they built that flyover it had a sand barrel crash barrier.
- michaelt 9y ago
  They might have been waiting for a severe EV battery fire to investigate. After all, EVs are becoming increasingly common; if fire departments need special training or equipment, now's the time to issue recommendations.

zaroth 9y ago

There’s excellent discussion about the accident at the Tesla forum. [1] The big take-away from their research is that particular exit-only left-lane (which is one of two side by side carpool lanes) is poorly marked, has been consistently gotten worse as changes have been made to the road over the last several years, does not have proper lane markings (missing chevrons in the non-lane), routinely has cars cutting right across the gore point (to the point where there are dash cam videos of almost accidents at that exact point linked in the forum) and, most damning of all, the resettable safety cushion device [2] which protects the gore point had already been hit just recently and there’s evidence it had not been reset when it was hit again by the Model X, which meant the X suffered a direct impact with a narrow slice of concrete. If anything I think NTSB should be investigating Caltrans for this one. [1] - https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/model-x-crash-on-us-101-mountain-view-ca.111505/ https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/model-x-crash-on-us-... [2] - https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/posts/2636752/ https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/posts/2636752/

cdibona 9y ago
I commute on this part of the road every single day, and every day there are people whipping and and out of the two hov lanes as they approach the flyway fork. The model X was probably trying to make it into the flyway at the last minute or continue down the 101 part at the last moment, cut across thinking they had time, and fatally misjudged. NTSB should look into this in the event that the person was under autopilot at the time, or if there was some flaw in the design of the model X that should have helped or mitigated the death of the driver. I would love to see better guidelines for tesla and for emt/fire staff as the road was shut down for about 6 hours while they tried to deal with the battery. Someone from tesla eventually came down and helped the fire dept deal with the fire... So, sure, this is a tricky and maybe even dangerous fork, and caltrans will probably put in those dividers like the ones on southbound old middlefield road, but its okay and smart to look into the driver, the model x and the subsequent 6 hours of delay and blockage to improve safety across the board.
- grzm 9y ago
  > "NTSB should look into this in the event that the person was under autopilot at the time, or if there was some flaw in the design of the model X that should have helped or mitigated the death of the driver. I would love to see better guidelines for tesla and for emt/fire staff as the road was shut down for about 6 hours while they tried to deal with the battery. Someone from tesla eventually came down and helped the fire dept deal with the fire..." This is explicitly what the NTSB mentioned in their tweet (included in the article) announcing the investigation: > "2 NTSB investigators conducting Field Investigation for fatal March 23, 2018, crash of a Tesla near Mountain View, CA. Unclear if automated control system was active at time of crash. Issues examined include: post-crash fire, steps to make vehicle safe for removal from scene." https://twitter.com/NTSB_Newsroom/status/978651644417265664 https://twitter.com/NTSB_Newsroom/status/978651644417265664

rocky1138 9y ago

How many other car manufacturers have had accidents investigated by the NTSB?

mc32 9y ago
They usually investigate companies whose products have a major impact on safety on the roadways [firestone for the Explorer rollovers, for example]. Anyhow, if there's an extra-ordinary vehicular/transport accident of note, they will likely investigate.
- greglindahl 9y ago
  NTSB also investigates failures of highway safety equipment, such as the crash barrier in that location. Which may or may not have been missing after a recent crash.
  - mc32 9y ago
    Good point as it appears the impact attenuator had not been replaced after having been compressed by what appears to have been a previous accident, if the photos and timelines by witness are correct.

mc32 9y ago

This might sound a bit retroactive, but why not require that systems which allow for even temporary autonomous mode have road-embedded systems and real-time comms with neighbors in order to be activational? That is, do not allow autonomous mode, unless there is an old-school road-embedded autonav system and if there are other vehicles on the road, it be able to realtime comm with at least xx% of its directional and radial neighbors (to add predictability and reduce misinformation.) This in addition to all current guidance systems. Obvs road-embedded systems do not account for debris, accidents, etc., but know the ideal path and would be backup-of last resort (incapacitated operator, other systems down). Real-time comms with neighbors surfaces good information and buries stale or inaccurate info.

83457 9y ago
Because then we would never have autonomous cars
- mc32 9y ago
  I would contend that. Dissemination (even distribution) might be slower, but it could evolve in specialized local areas (large campuses, special transit corridors, etc.) and slowly but safely expand outside those areas.
  - greglindahl 9y ago
    Given that you don't have any idea if autopilot was involved in this accident, why are you calling for anything to change? Shouldn't you wait until a few more facts are known?
    - mc32 9y ago
      That's true with regard to this incident. But there are the incidents by other developers of the technologies where the systems have proven at fault. What I'm saying is that given that the technology has not yet proven itself in demanding scenarios, we may ask for more rigorous requirements if this is to become the default navigation mode of the future (no human intervention). Do we have data on how many times people have had to avert an incident that wasn't reported (my autonav almost crashed me, but I took over)? If we had public data, we could make some kind of assessment but even then, if they proved good, we could make them even better yet with the additional support/failsafe systems.

kosei 9y ago

So, is the NTSB staffed/staffing up to accommodate the massive increase in these types of investigations that are likely to crop up over the next few years?

manicdee 9y ago
Why would there be a massive increase in these kinds of accidents?
- macintux 9y ago
  I imagine the point the parent was trying to make is that the NTSB will be more interested in autonomy-related accidents than common car crashes, and as more cars with autonomous features are sold there will be more such accidents to investigate, regardless of how good the systems may be. So today the NTSB probably investigates very, very few car crashes, but that should rise quite a bit.

dingo_bat 9y ago

You know it's something to do with the autopilot when NTSB invokes itself to do a car crash investigation.

greglindahl 9y ago
People are assuming that all over this discussion, but it's not necessarily the case. I drive past that location on a regular basis, usually in the carpool lane and into the left exit. I've seen many drivers cut over from the exiting left lane to the main road, often dangerously. So no, I wouldn't assume autopilot is involved at all.

hsrada 9y ago

A post on Tesla's blog about this incident - "What We Know About Last Week's Accident" https://www.tesla.com/blog/what-we-know-about-last-weeks-accident https://www.tesla.com/blog/what-we-know-about-last-weeks-acc...

dayaz36 9y ago

Why is this a story? Are Tesla cars not allowed to get into accidents?

sjwright 9y ago
Volvo makes remarkable claims about the safety of their vehicles. Tesla has claimed their cars are the safest in the industry. So, yes.
OldArrow 9y ago
Why are comment about Uber accident different than about Tesla accident. Why are many so biased about the subject. In Uber case everyone was levelheaded about the news and waited for official answer . When Tesla maked an accident there are 50% of post questioning about if it happend , why report and useless armchair reporting about conditions of the road.
- rm_-rf_slash 9y ago
  The difference is that the Uber accident was the first pedestrian fatality of an autonomous vehicle, whereas fatal crashes of drivers have been happening for a few years now.

soniatoms 9y ago

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soniatoms 9y ago

TomK32 9y ago

Now with discussion being a lot about the safety of this lane and barrier, here's a thought that could improve road safety for everyone: With more and more auto-piloting cars on the road calculating the road and make decisions on what's the safest way to continue, wouldn't be it rather easy for this data to flow back? Spots that are often causing trouble for the brains of the autopilot could then be identified easily and be the road, markings, signage, etc improved much quicker. Today's method are most likely a mix of experience and looking at the fatality and accident statistics for last year.

slivym 9y ago
It may be a bit of a political problem. "Hey, why are the potholes on my road not getting fixed, but Tesla gets the government to paint new chevrons on some fancy highway"
- TomK32 9y ago
  With almost everyone in a SUV potholes become a feature...
skgoa 9y ago
This is being looked into right now by Here, VW etc. Their plan is to for all cars that use the Here map backend (All Merc, BMW, VAG cars plus probably others who join down the line) to send updates automatically. MobilEye (now owned by Intel) is working on a similar system.

fndrplayer13 9y ago

Have we seen similar levels of damage in other cars that carry large battery packs and have been in head-on-collisions? I dont really have any commentary one way or another about autopilot or the safety of batteries, I'm just thinking there are probably other accidents that have happened in the industry in similar conditions to this. For example, the Prius and Volt have been on the road for quite some time, and both cars carry relatively large batteries (though certainly not as large as that on a Model X). When involved in head-on collisions do they see such drastic damage/fires? Just curious. I don't know that its even fair to compare those types of vehicles given the difference in the size of battery.

mrguyorama 9y ago
I think the old prius used lead-acid batteries, IE conventional automotive batteries. This significantly reduced the risk of fire, though I don't think that was the main reason for choosing them
- jhayward 9y ago
  No, all Prius prior to model year 2017 used NiMh batteries. Some in 2017 were starting to ship with Li-ion batteries.