10 ms·

I'm surprised Apple has created a proper Fi competitor yet. It would fit so well into their premium brand of "your iPhone works the moment you step off the plan

by mvid 9y ago

I'm surprised Apple has created a proper Fi competitor yet. It would fit so well into their premium brand of "your iPhone works the moment you step off the plane wherever your amazing life takes you". They wouldn't have their UX tied to cell providers, who are some of the most unpleasant entities to interact with. They would probably be able to lean further into their personal security stance, by fully obfuscating the user from the provider. They have the brand leverage to do it, I'm hoping this is a stepping stone.

chatmasta 9y ago
Probably because they’re making plenty of money from their existing relationships with carriers. There’s no reason for Apple to vertically integrate when they’re already the dominant player in their carrier relationships.
- vwadhwani 9y ago
  Google relies heavily on advertising revenue so needs to interject any time there's a threat to that. Doesn't matter if it's a web browser that defaults to bing or an ISP that interjects their own ads. On the other hand, Apple relies heavily on hardware sales for revenue.
jonlucc 9y ago
If you go into any of the major retailers in the US, the iPhone is already the first-class device. Why would they want to be in the messy business of running a carrier, likely dependent on the partners they'd then be screwing over, while they built their own network from the ground up. On the other hand, maybe they'd just purchase Sprint or Verizon.
- kodablah 9y ago
  > Why would they want to be in the messy business of running a carrier Does Fi run the carrier? I thought it used existing carriers and just supported seamless transition between them (and wifi). Regardless, the motivation would be to get that market they're missing that doesn't use one of the big 4. Granted Apple has never catered to that market, so not sure why they would now (it'd actually be detrimental to them IMO). EDIT: Oh, and to the GP's point, seamless international use of your phone is a premium feature that might be valuable to customers. You could easily say "why do ____, they are already considered first class" for any new feature.
  - Nullabillity 9y ago
    Fi's "included" roaming sounds great, until you realize how pathetically expensive even their domestic prices are. Fi's base price[0] is $20/mo + tax. Hallon (my current provider) will sell you 8GB/mo of data for $18/mo, tax included.[1] With Fi that would cost you.. $80/mo + tax. Hallon doesn't actually have anything comparable to that, price-wise; their most expensive plan is 100GB/mo at ~$40. And no, population density is not an excuse either. According to Wikipedia[2], the US' population density is 33 ppl/km², where Sweden has 23 ppl/km². Doesn't seem to be the economy either, the GDP per capita seems to within ~20%[3], and that's before taking into account the massive difference in income equality. I'd love if someone could explain how this price difference is somehow reasonable, because this just boggles my mind completely. [0]: https://fi.google.com/about/plan/ https://fi.google.com/about/plan/ [1]: https://www.hallon.se/vara-produkter/mobiltelefoni/mobilabonnemang https://www.hallon.se/vara-produkter/mobiltelefoni/mobilabon... [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_and_dependencies_by_population_density#Main_table https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_and_dependen... [3]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)...
    - kodablah 9y ago
      > I'd love if someone could explain how this price difference is somehow reasonable, because this just boggles my mind completely. On regional differences, I see price differences as usually a combination of charging what they can, who they have to or want to compete against, cost of doing business, and how seriously they take the market. Or put more simply: either they have optimized for most money or they don't care enough.
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
    - rootsudo 9y ago
      Same argument in Asia. 1gb in Philippines is not even 50 peso. it's $10 USD with fi. 50 peso is $1. Prepaid. in Japan 6GB pocket wifi is about 1500JPY, prepaid. With Fi, 1gb is $10. In Malaysia, unlimited unthrottled LTE is $14 USD. They're profiting like bandits. I just run up the support and get what I want usually. Fi created their own arbitrage opportunity out of convenience and brand image.
seanmcdirmid 9y ago
When you get off the plane in Thailand, you’ll get an SMS if you are roaming on a foreign carrier to use a local prepay service without needing a custom SIM. Not sure how they do it.
scrollaway 9y ago
> It would fit so well into their premium brand of "your iPhone works the moment you step off the plane wherever your amazing life takes you". If there's anything that would make me buy an iPhone, this is it. I travel a lot between the US and Europe; I'm using Fi at the moment even though I shouldn't actually have access to it. It's mind boggling to me the crazy things we can do with tech today, and not make it all work smoothly and reliably when you step a few meters off the border of whichever country you're in.
- garmaine 9y ago
  There are T-Mobile plans that work this way.
  - scrollaway 9y ago
    ... available to american customers. Wake me up when it's the other way around :/
    - jackweirdy 9y ago
      If you're in the UK, Three offer plans that are comparable (if I'm understanding correctly). "Feel at Home": http://www.three.co.uk/feel-at-home http://www.three.co.uk/feel-at-home
    - Tijdreiziger 9y ago
      If you're in the Netherlands, KPN offers a 100GB EU+US plan, and T-Mobile offers a Unlimited NL + 10GB EU+US plan (although you should boycott T-Mobile [1]). It's not quite the entire world, but it might be useful if you travel to the US often. [1] https://www.bof.nl/press/t-mobile-allowed-to-keep-violating-net-neutrality-principle/ https://www.bof.nl/press/t-mobile-allowed-to-keep-violating-...
      - voltagex_ 9y ago
        Is there any way I could get a decent KPN SIM prepaid while travelling (I'm not a resident)?
Faaak 9y ago
In the EU, you don't even need that. Roaming is included in all of EU's countries. My operator (Free) also includes the USA.
- dzhiurgis 9y ago
  > Roaming is included in all of EU's countries Kind of - if you buy monthly plan that’s 2X more expensive (at least in Eastern Europe).
  - paublyrne 9y ago
    In the EU roaming charges were abolished last year.
    - Tijdreiziger 9y ago
      > However, if you have a very cheap mobile data unit price (less than €3.85 / GB in 2017), your operator may apply a "fair use" limit for data that is lower than your domestic allowance when you are roaming. Source: https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/internet-telecoms/mobile-roaming-costs/index_en.htm https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/internet-tel...
      - dx034 9y ago
        Fair use still means more than nil. AFAIK, this was included to avoid that people buy cheap plans in countries they don't live. For all plans I've seen so far, the allowance was sufficient to cover frequent travel, just not enough if you're only abroad.
      - tomcooks 9y ago
        The "fair use limit" is to prevent expats using a SIM card from a country with cheaper tariffs in a country where higher rates apply
    - dzhiurgis 9y ago
      Yes and in turn operators just created new “European” plans.

by mvid 9y ago

chatmasta 9y ago

Probably because they’re making plenty of money from their existing relationships with carriers. There’s no reason for Apple to vertically integrate when they’re already the dominant player in their carrier relationships.

vwadhwani 9y ago
Google relies heavily on advertising revenue so needs to interject any time there's a threat to that. Doesn't matter if it's a web browser that defaults to bing or an ISP that interjects their own ads. On the other hand, Apple relies heavily on hardware sales for revenue.

jonlucc 9y ago

If you go into any of the major retailers in the US, the iPhone is already the first-class device. Why would they want to be in the messy business of running a carrier, likely dependent on the partners they'd then be screwing over, while they built their own network from the ground up. On the other hand, maybe they'd just purchase Sprint or Verizon.

kodablah 9y ago
> Why would they want to be in the messy business of running a carrier Does Fi run the carrier? I thought it used existing carriers and just supported seamless transition between them (and wifi). Regardless, the motivation would be to get that market they're missing that doesn't use one of the big 4. Granted Apple has never catered to that market, so not sure why they would now (it'd actually be detrimental to them IMO). EDIT: Oh, and to the GP's point, seamless international use of your phone is a premium feature that might be valuable to customers. You could easily say "why do ____, they are already considered first class" for any new feature.
- Nullabillity 9y ago
  Fi's "included" roaming sounds great, until you realize how pathetically expensive even their domestic prices are. Fi's base price[0] is $20/mo + tax. Hallon (my current provider) will sell you 8GB/mo of data for $18/mo, tax included.[1] With Fi that would cost you.. $80/mo + tax. Hallon doesn't actually have anything comparable to that, price-wise; their most expensive plan is 100GB/mo at ~$40. And no, population density is not an excuse either. According to Wikipedia[2], the US' population density is 33 ppl/km², where Sweden has 23 ppl/km². Doesn't seem to be the economy either, the GDP per capita seems to within ~20%[3], and that's before taking into account the massive difference in income equality. I'd love if someone could explain how this price difference is somehow reasonable, because this just boggles my mind completely. [0]: https://fi.google.com/about/plan/ https://fi.google.com/about/plan/ [1]: https://www.hallon.se/vara-produkter/mobiltelefoni/mobilabonnemang https://www.hallon.se/vara-produkter/mobiltelefoni/mobilabon... [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_and_dependencies_by_population_density#Main_table https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_and_dependen... [3]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)...
  - kodablah 9y ago
    > I'd love if someone could explain how this price difference is somehow reasonable, because this just boggles my mind completely. On regional differences, I see price differences as usually a combination of charging what they can, who they have to or want to compete against, cost of doing business, and how seriously they take the market. Or put more simply: either they have optimized for most money or they don't care enough.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - rootsudo 9y ago
    Same argument in Asia. 1gb in Philippines is not even 50 peso. it's $10 USD with fi. 50 peso is $1. Prepaid. in Japan 6GB pocket wifi is about 1500JPY, prepaid. With Fi, 1gb is $10. In Malaysia, unlimited unthrottled LTE is $14 USD. They're profiting like bandits. I just run up the support and get what I want usually. Fi created their own arbitrage opportunity out of convenience and brand image.

seanmcdirmid 9y ago

When you get off the plane in Thailand, you’ll get an SMS if you are roaming on a foreign carrier to use a local prepay service without needing a custom SIM. Not sure how they do it.

scrollaway 9y ago

> It would fit so well into their premium brand of "your iPhone works the moment you step off the plane wherever your amazing life takes you". If there's anything that would make me buy an iPhone, this is it. I travel a lot between the US and Europe; I'm using Fi at the moment even though I shouldn't actually have access to it. It's mind boggling to me the crazy things we can do with tech today, and not make it all work smoothly and reliably when you step a few meters off the border of whichever country you're in.

garmaine 9y ago
There are T-Mobile plans that work this way.
- scrollaway 9y ago
  ... available to american customers. Wake me up when it's the other way around :/
  - jackweirdy 9y ago
    If you're in the UK, Three offer plans that are comparable (if I'm understanding correctly). "Feel at Home": http://www.three.co.uk/feel-at-home http://www.three.co.uk/feel-at-home
  - Tijdreiziger 9y ago
    If you're in the Netherlands, KPN offers a 100GB EU+US plan, and T-Mobile offers a Unlimited NL + 10GB EU+US plan (although you should boycott T-Mobile [1]). It's not quite the entire world, but it might be useful if you travel to the US often. [1] https://www.bof.nl/press/t-mobile-allowed-to-keep-violating-net-neutrality-principle/ https://www.bof.nl/press/t-mobile-allowed-to-keep-violating-...
    - voltagex_ 9y ago
      Is there any way I could get a decent KPN SIM prepaid while travelling (I'm not a resident)?

Faaak 9y ago

In the EU, you don't even need that. Roaming is included in all of EU's countries. My operator (Free) also includes the USA.

dzhiurgis 9y ago
> Roaming is included in all of EU's countries Kind of - if you buy monthly plan that’s 2X more expensive (at least in Eastern Europe).
- paublyrne 9y ago
  In the EU roaming charges were abolished last year.
  - Tijdreiziger 9y ago
    > However, if you have a very cheap mobile data unit price (less than €3.85 / GB in 2017), your operator may apply a "fair use" limit for data that is lower than your domestic allowance when you are roaming. Source: https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/internet-telecoms/mobile-roaming-costs/index_en.htm https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/internet-tel...
    - dx034 9y ago
      Fair use still means more than nil. AFAIK, this was included to avoid that people buy cheap plans in countries they don't live. For all plans I've seen so far, the allowance was sufficient to cover frequent travel, just not enough if you're only abroad.
    - tomcooks 9y ago
      The "fair use limit" is to prevent expats using a SIM card from a country with cheaper tariffs in a country where higher rates apply
  - dzhiurgis 9y ago
    Yes and in turn operators just created new “European” plans.