4 ms·

> It is yesteryear trying to desperately hang on to have relevance. What an incredibly misguided comment. Microsoft is a major player in the business software

by zapita 9y ago

> It is yesteryear trying to desperately hang on to have relevance. What an incredibly misguided comment. Microsoft is a major player in the business software market, and there's no sign that will change anytime soon. Sure, Windows is not a growth center, but it's still a huge business and will continue to be for several years. Meanwhile Office 365 is adequately protecting their productivity business, and Azure is growing at an enormous rate. Most importantly, Microsoft has a massive home advantage when selling to businesses. They are the masters of cross-selling, and unlike consumer companies like Google, they know how to compete in markets without winner-takes-all outcomes (enterprise buyers, unlike consumers, know how to play vendors against each other to limit lock-in). As long as they deliver good enough products, it will be very hard to uproot them.

wdr1 9y ago
It is a major player, but in the same way that IBM is. What it is not is a Netflix, Amazon, Facebook or Google.
- spiderPig 9y ago
  I would say Google is the new Microsoft of the 2000s now. From what I hear from friends, it’s very slow moving and filled with empire building leaders like Microsoft had. Amazon is really commendable in this aspect. Culture really does make a big difference no matter how smart your engineers are. I mean just look at how many chat/messenger products they have now. Gsuite may be lightweight now but it’s only a few years away from feature creep with PMs pushing their shit and making it a bloated mess.
endorphone 9y ago
>What an incredibly misguided comment. You strangely follow this by essentially supporting my comment. This whole conversation is a bit surreal, in a way, because we've been having it for literally a decade while Microsoft stagnates and becomes less and less important in this industry, a bit like IBM. The absolutely domination that Microsoft held in the late-90s to early-00s is something that is seems many in here are blissfully unaware. I remember desperately getting those technet early release discs to try to get a headstart on whatever Microsoft was doing next. Now...who cares? Like literally, Microsoft initiatives that are anything more than "yup, still selling that thing we got some entrenchment in a decade ago...and if we go outside of the lines even a bit it will spell doom" just fizzles. Remember when Exchange/MAPI integration was Microsoft's beachhead? BOOM. Then it was Office, but Microsoft had to rebuild Office to work on virtually every device or they would have had a mass exodus. Windows CE/Windows Mobile...all the Microsoft pull in the world was worth exactly nothing. Now, astonishingly few shops are actually making Windows apps. In-house development is overwhelmingly web apps, or even Android/iOS. People have mentioned contact management, scheduling, etc -- all overwhelmingly web and mobile apps, or at a minimum cross-platform. In the financial world the entire next generation of platforms are cross-platform or web-based. No one is pinning anything on Microsoft. I'm not anti-Microsoft by any measure -- I'm typing this on Windows 10 right now -- and the various fanboy "boooo, stop hating on M$" type replies are boorish. It's just a completely different world, and Microsoft is another IBM now.
- zapita 9y ago
  Sure, Microsoft is no longer the monopolistic behemoth it was back in the 90s. Nobody here has claimed otherwise. There is a wide spectrum between "absolute domination" (your strawman) and "desperately trying to stay relevant" (your argument). > Microsoft is another IBM now Only someone with very little actual experience of the business software market would make such a claim.
  - endorphone 9y ago
    >There is a wide spectrum between "absolute domination" (your strawman) and "desperately trying to stay relevant" (your argument). I said that Microsoft is fighting to stay relevant, which is most certainly in contrast to their once position of domination. These statements are supporting, not in conflict. There is no fallacy. >Only someone with very little actual experience of the business software market would make such a claim. I guess.
    - adventured 9y ago
      Microsoft has $90 billion in sales. They'll likely generate ~$25 billion in net income this year. Both their sales and profit figures for 2018 are likely to be record highs based on how their business is performing the last few quarters. They're the worlds largest software company by both sales and profit. They're also the world's most valuable software company and the third most valuable company period. If this is what qualifies as fighting to stay relevant, there are only a few companies in world history that have ever been relevant.
      - fauigerzigerk 9y ago
        I guess it depends on what you consider relevant. If being relevant is to continue to exist as a large company then yes Microsoft is relevant, as is IBM, Oracle or SAP. If being relevant means to shape the future of tech then I think the jury is still out. Microsoft certainly has potential. Their AI research and offerings are right up there next to Google's. Combining AI with SQL and Office could enable some real productivity advances. Microsoft is also top notch at PC gaming, a significant consumer niche. But I think Microsoft also has one rather big problem that is currently masked by their Azure growth rates. That problem is Windows. I think Windows may be in permanent decline. I know this sounds far fetched given the seemingly unassailable dominance of Windows on corporate desktops. It's indispensible for a very wide array of tasks right now. No need to reiterate all of them. But Windows has largely lost personal computing to Android and iOS (as well as some Mac and Chrome OS in the US). Where it's still being used for personal computing it's often as a mere host for a web browser with the added benefit of a physical keyboard. Windows has effectively lost the generation that will shape corporate environments in the years and decades to come, and that has the potential to erode both Office and their server-side offerings. Windows is losing share everywhere, even on Azure. It's one thing to talk an entreched Windows shop into using Azure. They certainly get some impressive growth numbers out of it. But it's quite a different challenge for Microsoft to sell to people who went from school through university using iOS or Android, collaborating via Google Docs and Google Drive for free. It's going to be a very hard sell for Microsoft. There is an avalanche of these folks that's going to hit corporate environments in the coming years. They have no attachment to Microsoft and they have zero tolerance for Microsoft's obscure sales language and licensing terms.

by zapita 9y ago

wdr1 9y ago

It is a major player, but in the same way that IBM is. What it is not is a Netflix, Amazon, Facebook or Google.

spiderPig 9y ago
I would say Google is the new Microsoft of the 2000s now. From what I hear from friends, it’s very slow moving and filled with empire building leaders like Microsoft had. Amazon is really commendable in this aspect. Culture really does make a big difference no matter how smart your engineers are. I mean just look at how many chat/messenger products they have now. Gsuite may be lightweight now but it’s only a few years away from feature creep with PMs pushing their shit and making it a bloated mess.

endorphone 9y ago

>What an incredibly misguided comment. You strangely follow this by essentially supporting my comment. This whole conversation is a bit surreal, in a way, because we've been having it for literally a decade while Microsoft stagnates and becomes less and less important in this industry, a bit like IBM. The absolutely domination that Microsoft held in the late-90s to early-00s is something that is seems many in here are blissfully unaware. I remember desperately getting those technet early release discs to try to get a headstart on whatever Microsoft was doing next. Now...who cares? Like literally, Microsoft initiatives that are anything more than "yup, still selling that thing we got some entrenchment in a decade ago...and if we go outside of the lines even a bit it will spell doom" just fizzles. Remember when Exchange/MAPI integration was Microsoft's beachhead? BOOM. Then it was Office, but Microsoft had to rebuild Office to work on virtually every device or they would have had a mass exodus. Windows CE/Windows Mobile...all the Microsoft pull in the world was worth exactly nothing. Now, astonishingly few shops are actually making Windows apps. In-house development is overwhelmingly web apps, or even Android/iOS. People have mentioned contact management, scheduling, etc -- all overwhelmingly web and mobile apps, or at a minimum cross-platform. In the financial world the entire next generation of platforms are cross-platform or web-based. No one is pinning anything on Microsoft. I'm not anti-Microsoft by any measure -- I'm typing this on Windows 10 right now -- and the various fanboy "boooo, stop hating on M$" type replies are boorish. It's just a completely different world, and Microsoft is another IBM now.

zapita 9y ago
Sure, Microsoft is no longer the monopolistic behemoth it was back in the 90s. Nobody here has claimed otherwise. There is a wide spectrum between "absolute domination" (your strawman) and "desperately trying to stay relevant" (your argument). > Microsoft is another IBM now Only someone with very little actual experience of the business software market would make such a claim.
- endorphone 9y ago
  >There is a wide spectrum between "absolute domination" (your strawman) and "desperately trying to stay relevant" (your argument). I said that Microsoft is fighting to stay relevant, which is most certainly in contrast to their once position of domination. These statements are supporting, not in conflict. There is no fallacy. >Only someone with very little actual experience of the business software market would make such a claim. I guess.
  - adventured 9y ago
    Microsoft has $90 billion in sales. They'll likely generate ~$25 billion in net income this year. Both their sales and profit figures for 2018 are likely to be record highs based on how their business is performing the last few quarters. They're the worlds largest software company by both sales and profit. They're also the world's most valuable software company and the third most valuable company period. If this is what qualifies as fighting to stay relevant, there are only a few companies in world history that have ever been relevant.
    - fauigerzigerk 9y ago
      I guess it depends on what you consider relevant. If being relevant is to continue to exist as a large company then yes Microsoft is relevant, as is IBM, Oracle or SAP. If being relevant means to shape the future of tech then I think the jury is still out. Microsoft certainly has potential. Their AI research and offerings are right up there next to Google's. Combining AI with SQL and Office could enable some real productivity advances. Microsoft is also top notch at PC gaming, a significant consumer niche. But I think Microsoft also has one rather big problem that is currently masked by their Azure growth rates. That problem is Windows. I think Windows may be in permanent decline. I know this sounds far fetched given the seemingly unassailable dominance of Windows on corporate desktops. It's indispensible for a very wide array of tasks right now. No need to reiterate all of them. But Windows has largely lost personal computing to Android and iOS (as well as some Mac and Chrome OS in the US). Where it's still being used for personal computing it's often as a mere host for a web browser with the added benefit of a physical keyboard. Windows has effectively lost the generation that will shape corporate environments in the years and decades to come, and that has the potential to erode both Office and their server-side offerings. Windows is losing share everywhere, even on Azure. It's one thing to talk an entreched Windows shop into using Azure. They certainly get some impressive growth numbers out of it. But it's quite a different challenge for Microsoft to sell to people who went from school through university using iOS or Android, collaborating via Google Docs and Google Drive for free. It's going to be a very hard sell for Microsoft. There is an avalanche of these folks that's going to hit corporate environments in the coming years. They have no attachment to Microsoft and they have zero tolerance for Microsoft's obscure sales language and licensing terms.