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This is Bizarro world for me. Until I read this article I couldn't conceive that government workers working too hard would be an issue. Not that we don't have g

This is Bizarro world for me. Until I read this article I couldn't conceive that government workers working too hard would be an issue. Not that we don't have government workers who have to work really hard in the USA. But that seems to be the exception and not the rule. I am more used to watching the reflection of a game of Solitaire off of workers glasses while dozens of people wait in line. I get that it's apparently a problem there, but what are they doing right where more than half the government workforce are asking to be allowed to work late? Or are they just milking overtime pay? The latter would definitely fit much more comfortably into my experience. Edit: "My experience" being running a small business for 7 years that required interacting with various local government employees from many different municipalities. The vast majority were very nice people, but my company (and my competitors) were run way more efficiently, and always using the latest technologies. I think it comes down to motivation and human nature. Sometimes they would casually do things that completely screwed over everyone that relied on them, in the worst places such things would be done on purpose for political reasons. The office just got asked to reduce expenses by 5%? Cut the hours for customer facing tasks by 50% so the public feels the pain and complains to the mayor.

smt88 9y ago
Govt workers that you meet in person (DMV, permitting office, etc.) are a tiny drop in the bucket and don't accurately represent the whole.
- Symbiote 9y ago
  The American government workers I meet tend be software developers, or developers who've moved into management. They work at least as hard as private sector workers, usually for less pay, and they really believe in their work (science/biology). The American meme of the dysfunctional DMV seems almost self-reinforcing. The equivalent offices I use in Denmark or the UK are efficient, they have targets to meet and a good working culture.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - mrguyorama 9y ago
    Every DMV I've ever been in was fast, helpful, and reliable. I don't understand DMV jokes. This experiences include outrageously underfunded rural towns and the biggest city in our state.
exotree 9y ago
I’ve increasingly found the characterization that most government employees are lazy or inefficient to be remarkably untrue.
- jaggederest 9y ago
  Yeah, I've never understood that characterization. The government as a system is inefficient, precisely because it doesn't operate on a profit motive. But that's a systemic problem, not an individual one. Most of the people I know who work in government do so at a substantial pay cut compared to private sector work, and precisely because they're engaged and driven.
  - throwawaybq8 9y ago
    Why do people still believe that profit motive = efficient? My employer is plenty profit-driven, but a coworker just spent five days dicking around doing nothing because his computer broke and we’re too incompetent to provide adequate spare resources. Don’t tell me the profit motive makes organizations efficient.
    - adventured 9y ago
      It's ultimately simple. The government has a fiat printing press. Microsoft does not. If Microsoft loses $33 billion per year for ten years (equivalent to ~1/3 of sales), it will go bankrupt. In fact, if it loses money like that for just four years, it will likely go bankrupt. If the US Government bleeds $1 trillion per year for ten years (equivalent to ~1/3 of its tax revenue), it will tax you more and or print away some of your standard of living. See: Japan's budget deficit versus tax revenue the last decade. Nothing stopped the Japanese Government from being fiscally wildly irresponsible, then debasing the Yen and stealing the standard of living of the Japanese people to pay for it all (still continuing now). The need to not lose money perpetually, enforces at worst a minimum required level of efficiency by the vast majority of private businesses. There are very few exceptions to that, even in quasi protected monopoly situations such as railroads, telecom or airlines. The US Government has no inherent efficiency enforcement mechanism. As witnessed by the public debt going from $5.6 trillion to $21 trillion in just 17 years or so. If you want to talk about required efficiency, trying running a manufacturing business with a 6% profit margin, or Walmart with a 2.x% net income margin, or a liquor store or convenience store with a 5% profit margin. You'll instantly learn how brutal and unforgiving the private sphere tends to be versus the more typically spendthrift ways of government.
brigade 9y ago
There's actually surprisingly little overtime claimed in Korea for all the >40 hour weeks being worked. The simple answer is that Korea (and Japan) have a cultural norm where showing dedication to your job/company by working long hours is vastly more important for career advancement (or even continued employment!) than the actual work you get done.

smt88 9y ago

Govt workers that you meet in person (DMV, permitting office, etc.) are a tiny drop in the bucket and don't accurately represent the whole.

Symbiote 9y ago
The American government workers I meet tend be software developers, or developers who've moved into management. They work at least as hard as private sector workers, usually for less pay, and they really believe in their work (science/biology). The American meme of the dysfunctional DMV seems almost self-reinforcing. The equivalent offices I use in Denmark or the UK are efficient, they have targets to meet and a good working culture.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- mrguyorama 9y ago
  Every DMV I've ever been in was fast, helpful, and reliable. I don't understand DMV jokes. This experiences include outrageously underfunded rural towns and the biggest city in our state.

exotree 9y ago

I’ve increasingly found the characterization that most government employees are lazy or inefficient to be remarkably untrue.

jaggederest 9y ago
Yeah, I've never understood that characterization. The government as a system is inefficient, precisely because it doesn't operate on a profit motive. But that's a systemic problem, not an individual one. Most of the people I know who work in government do so at a substantial pay cut compared to private sector work, and precisely because they're engaged and driven.
- throwawaybq8 9y ago
  Why do people still believe that profit motive = efficient? My employer is plenty profit-driven, but a coworker just spent five days dicking around doing nothing because his computer broke and we’re too incompetent to provide adequate spare resources. Don’t tell me the profit motive makes organizations efficient.
  - adventured 9y ago
    It's ultimately simple. The government has a fiat printing press. Microsoft does not. If Microsoft loses $33 billion per year for ten years (equivalent to ~1/3 of sales), it will go bankrupt. In fact, if it loses money like that for just four years, it will likely go bankrupt. If the US Government bleeds $1 trillion per year for ten years (equivalent to ~1/3 of its tax revenue), it will tax you more and or print away some of your standard of living. See: Japan's budget deficit versus tax revenue the last decade. Nothing stopped the Japanese Government from being fiscally wildly irresponsible, then debasing the Yen and stealing the standard of living of the Japanese people to pay for it all (still continuing now). The need to not lose money perpetually, enforces at worst a minimum required level of efficiency by the vast majority of private businesses. There are very few exceptions to that, even in quasi protected monopoly situations such as railroads, telecom or airlines. The US Government has no inherent efficiency enforcement mechanism. As witnessed by the public debt going from $5.6 trillion to $21 trillion in just 17 years or so. If you want to talk about required efficiency, trying running a manufacturing business with a 6% profit margin, or Walmart with a 2.x% net income margin, or a liquor store or convenience store with a 5% profit margin. You'll instantly learn how brutal and unforgiving the private sphere tends to be versus the more typically spendthrift ways of government.

brigade 9y ago

There's actually surprisingly little overtime claimed in Korea for all the >40 hour weeks being worked. The simple answer is that Korea (and Japan) have a cultural norm where showing dedication to your job/company by working long hours is vastly more important for career advancement (or even continued employment!) than the actual work you get done.